daavening for adoptee, question

granolamom

Tue, Aug 01 2006, 11:05 am

if someone was adopted and we say tehillim for them, do we use the name of the biological mother? what if she is unknown? or not jewish?

I am currently saying tehillim for someone like this and the name given out is the adopted mother. I was thinking that was interesting. anyone know for sure?

red sea

Tue, Aug 01 2006, 11:07 am

I'm not sure but I think you could use sarah as in imeinu, but I think you cud also use the mother who raised thems name

shalhevet

Tue, Aug 01 2006, 11:09 am

If you don't know the mother's name or if she wasn't Jewish you say:
ben/bas Sara Imeinu

It sounds weird to me to use the adoptive mother's name.

(BTW: I have not asked a rav about this.)

ny21

Tue, Aug 01 2006, 11:11 am

I am making a correction !
the answer according to Ask moses.com
is to use the name SARA

Last edited by ny21 on Tue, Aug 01 2006, 9:29 pm; edited 1 time in total

shalhevet

Tue, Aug 01 2006, 11:13 am

Why do you say that, momoftwins?

In halacha the biological mother stays the mother, although adoptive parents are considered to have done an outstanding chesed.

red sea

Tue, Aug 01 2006, 11:17 am

my old neighbor has a cousin who is adopted and by her wedding the rabbi used the adoptive parents name on the kesubah, and it was the same rabbi that did her official conversion or whatever u call it

I think either way is fine

Last edited by red sea on Tue, Aug 01 2006, 11:26 am; edited 1 time in total

ny21

Tue, Aug 01 2006, 11:19 am

ASk moses .com said to use the name Sara

Last edited by ny21 on Tue, Aug 01 2006, 9:28 pm; edited 1 time in total

ny21

Tue, Aug 01 2006, 12:14 pm

I am correcting myself -
you should use the name Sarah

Last edited by ny21 on Tue, Aug 01 2006, 9:27 pm; edited 1 time in total

613

Tue, Aug 01 2006, 12:45 pm

I was told to say _______ bas hamigadla _________ (using the adoptive mother's name).
I heard this from my friend's aunt who adopted a son and needed tefilos said for him.

Ruchel

Tue, Aug 01 2006, 1:05 pm

613 wrote:

I was told to say _______ bas hamigadla _________ (using the adoptive mother's name).
I heard this from my friend's aunt who adopted a son and needed tefilos said for him.

Interesting! I never heard of that!

shalhevet

Tue, Aug 01 2006, 3:13 pm

momoftwins wrote:

Mummyof six, can you tell us exactly where you get that from ?
I am intereted in knowing .Thanks

I said before that I don't know the halachic answer to this question.

But... an adoptive parent is not allowed to touch their child, or have yichud with them once anyone else would not be allowed to.

A child is always obligated in kibud av v'em to his biological parents, irrelevant to how they treated him (unless it is impossible to e.g have a normal relationship or something exceptional)

A person would be forbidden to marry his biological relatives and there is no issur on e.g. marrying an adoptive sibling.

Halacha considers biological parenthood an important thing to know for the reasons above.

And momoftwins, I asked you first Wink

So, what are your sources?

Ruchel

Tue, Aug 01 2006, 3:17 pm

What about the child of a Jewish dad and a non Jewish mother who was converted? Do the laws above apply? ^
What if the mother also converts after birth, does it change anything?

I'm interested in the topic, as my cousin married a non Jewish woman and has a son with her...

realeez

Tue, Aug 01 2006, 3:57 pm

mummyof6, yes that is right but on the other hand in Tanach there are examples of children being considered the child of those who raised them - like with the children of Penina's being considered Chana's, Mordechai & Esther and others that I can't think of. Also "kol halomeid es ben chaveiro torah ... keelu yaldo" - if you teach someone torah it is as if you gave birth to them.

so definitely this is an interesting sheilah!!!

BrachaVHatzlocha

Thu, Aug 03 2006, 5:05 pm

Ruchel wrote:

What about the child of a Jewish dad and a non Jewish mother who was converted? Do the laws above apply? ^
What if the mother also converts after birth, does it change anything?

If the mother isn't Jewish, the child isn't Jewish. If she coverts before birth (or conceptioN??), the child is Jewish. If he converts after the child is born, the child must convert himself.

amother

Thu, Aug 03 2006, 5:26 pm

There are differing opinions about yichud with adopted children.Some hold (I don't have the sources anymore I can see if my dd still has her notes)that there is no yichud with someone raised from birth.
The children don't have chiyuv of kibud av vaim.Although there are chiyuvim of hakras hatov etc