Gifted forum- offensive? One upmanship?

Chayalle

Wed, Dec 15 2010, 11:14 am

My grandmother A"H used to tell me that she davened for kids (for 10 long years) and asked that Hashem give her a child that is "shein aber nisht tzu shain, klug aber nisht tzu klug, etc..." (pretty but not too pretty, smart but not too smart.....)

Pretty much everything in life is a packaged deal. My sister has a child that is an absolute genius, literally, and boy is her life not easy because of it. There's alot of challenge that goes into that package.

I'm not at all offended and hope everyone can meet the needs of their children. For me, I'm grateful for my darling kids, who have their strengths and weaknesses.

Ruchel

Wed, Dec 15 2010, 11:16 am

Before the first thread, I would have said it was a bit paranoid, but now I see you are right! On Imamother people "hate" certain categories and I've discovered it includes gifted kids.

I don't know, IRL I do NOT say "my child is gifted", other parents say it! Other parents discuss and comment what she says or does, I just answer! and they do NOT have a problem saying they are surprised/admiring. Maybe again it's a cultural thing.

freidasima

Wed, Dec 15 2010, 11:21 am

Being gifted means only one thing. Having a high IQ on the IQ tests. It doesn't mean anything about that child's midos, it doesn't mean anything about the child's future. Many kids who test genius go on to do nothing with it, many kids who don't go on to be incredible.

Not great if little kids know their IQ. I always knew mine, my mother had me tested when I was younger as it was obvious I was smart but I was flunking the standardized city tests which they used to give in NY forty five years ago. So I tested whatever and my mother told me the number. That didn't mean anything to me until I said it to someone and they almost fainted. What? People can walk around with such numbers? So I realized it was something and it was always held up to me "how can someone with such an IQ do what you did?" etc.

Not good. Very not good. And worse when I had my oldest daughter tested for school because of age requirements and such and she came out something like 145 or maybe 150...and my mother was sitting there when we got the results and heard the number and said "oy nebuch, she's [crazy]"...(compared to me and to her). And she was serious. What my mother didn't know is that my daughter was entering the room and heard (at age 4.5) and never forgot it. To this day she is always calling herself "the [slow person]" compared to the rest of the family (she is definitely not). Does it help? I didn't test the others for just that reason.

In any case, it's more a burden than a gift, believe me.

Wed, Dec 15 2010, 11:30 am

freidasima wrote:

Being gifted means only one thing. Having a high IQ on the IQ tests.

Not necessarily. For more discussion, I'll wait for the forum.

freidasima wrote:

Not great if little kids know their IQ. I always knew mine, my mother had me tested when I was younger as it was obvious I was smart but I was flunking the standardized city tests which they used to give in NY forty five years ago. So I tested whatever and my mother told me the number. That didn't mean anything to me until I said it to someone and they almost fainted. What? People can walk around with such numbers? So I realized it was something and it was always held up to me "how can someone with such an IQ do what you did?" etc.

Not good. Very not good. And worse when I had my oldest daughter tested for school because of age requirements and such and she came out something like 145 or maybe 150...and my mother was sitting there when we got the results and heard the number and said "oy nebuch, she's [crazy]"...(compared to me and to her). And she was serious. What my mother didn't know is that my daughter was entering the room and heard (at age 4.5) and never forgot it. To this day she is always calling herself "the [slow person]" compared to the rest of the family (she is definitely not). Does it help? I didn't test the others for just that reason.

In any case, it's more a burden than a gift, believe me.

Perhaps this is why mothers would benefit from such a forum. It can be difficult to know the best way to approach certain situations: to tell the child or not? to test or not? what does this mean in a global way for the child's development?

imamama

Wed, Dec 15 2010, 11:30 am

I wouldn't say I'm offended by the idea of a gifted children forum. I'm certainly not offended by the idea of giftedness in general. I think I just feel a little bad. I think my kids are brilliant, but I don't know if they are necessarily gifted, and that makes me feel guilty because how could I not think my kids are "good enough" to get me into the gifted children forum?

Flowerchild

Wed, Dec 15 2010, 11:34 am

I dont know why people keep saying its a burden, its just different with its own set of issues. My son attends gifted and talented school, he is on the talented side, but I see the gifted kids and they are pretty happy well adjusted children. Probably because they are in the enviornment with other like minded kids and the education is catered to them. But I honestly, think anything in life can be a burden, it depends how you handle it.

ora_43

Wed, Dec 15 2010, 11:38 am

I think I find the forum idea a little offensive. But only a little.

There's no one issue that everyone with a "gifted" child has. Some gifted kids have social issues, some don't, some have trouble in school, some don't, some are highly sensitive, some aren't. Etc.

That's true of most of the "closed forum" issues - not everyone with ADD has the same struggles, not all BTs have the same struggles, etc - but in this case, the one unifying thing is a positive thing (because issues aside, being able to learn things really fast is fun), so I can see how it could come across as bragging, even though I totally get that the people interested in the forum don't mean it that way.

It's kind of like if there were a special forum for rich people. It's true that they have issues the rest of us don't - not all of them good - but it's also true that a lot of people would like to be in that forum and might feel upset at not qualifying, while there aren't many people wishing they could "qualify" for the existing forums.

I find the "gifted" label restricting (not offensive, though). I think we don't know nearly enough about human intelligence to slap a number on it. I also think it adds to the sense people have of intelligence as innate, when that's not fully true (IMHO).

I also have a big dislike of labeling kids. While I realize it's helpful, I hate the thought of kids having expectations on them in terms of academic/career stuff, which often happens when a kid is really bright, even if it's not on a conscious level.

louche

Wed, Dec 15 2010, 11:39 am

No, no and no, but I guess it depends on whether it's the mom who thinks her kid is gifted or if the kid has been assessed by pros. Just plain being an excellent student at the top of the class or being very talented is not the same as being gifted. Gifted in my book means abnormally good at something, on another order of magnitude, and parenting such a child can have its challenges.

With apologies to those parents whose kids are truly gifted and a problem, I think many parents think their kid is gifted just because he's their kid, by definition superior to all others, and they "complain" about the "problems" the way the class beauty queen might "complain" that she can't get her homework done because boys are always calling her and interrupting her study sessions.

Fox

Wed, Dec 15 2010, 11:40 am

I find the proliferation of forums to be ridiculous. The whole point of a separate forum, whether it is open or closed, is to have a place where certain practices, customs, or problems will be understood without debate or without endless questions.

But a lot of forums seem to be created after one or two posters or threads get everyone in an uproar. However, in many cases, the entire issue could have been averted in the first place if the OP of the threads in question had just communicated a little better. Or if a handful of posters were just ignored!

So what happens? Someone starts a thread asking for a new forum; enough people pile on; Yael opens a new forum; and then, pfft. Nothing. After a few posts saying how great it is to have a new forum, there are virtually no posts on it or the posts that appear could have easily been posted on a more general forum.

The "Professional Working Women" forum is a good example. Debates over the desirability of working had broken out on a few threads, and posters wanted to avoid getting tangled up in that argument. But I've been watching the posts over the months, and the huge majority are completely irrelevant to the hashkafa of the OP regarding working outside the home. Asking "What should I wear to an interview for a full-time job as an accountant?" doesn't require us to know why the OP is working and whether she would be a SAHM if she could! These posts could have gone in the "Working Women" forum just as well. And if someone gets snarky and says, "Well, you shouldn't be working as an accountant, anyway!" -- she can be safely ignored, regardless of the details.

Only children, gifted children, semi-gifted children, a little-bit-gifted-but-bad-at-math children . . . each of these may factor into an OP's question or thread, but I truly doubt that new forums are genuinely needed.

Ruchel

Wed, Dec 15 2010, 11:43 am

ChossidMom wrote:

freidasima wrote:

In any case, it's more a burden than a gift, believe me.

I agree. Thank God I don't have "gifted" children.

This is a very strange reaction. In my world no one wants a "crazy genius" or even a non adaptated "tto gifted" child, but those with a "regular" gifted child are so very proud and happy, though of course there are challenges.
You know what? an average kid would be a challenge for me, because I may expect more, based on my experience, and worry and be frustrated.

Once my mother told me she "had no idea how she would have done with a non gifted child".

Bash away...

HindaRochel

Wed, Dec 15 2010, 11:44 am

Well as I said Fox I'm asking for a ME forum. It will be boring probably, but I'm sure I can find something to debate myself on.

Anyway, I really don't mind closed forums so much, but it does remind me of a funny idea I had once when I was younger. I forget how I got on the topic but I imagined the world made up of little aisles, and everyone walking down their own personal aisle and never connecting with anyone else because whatever each person had needed its own place.

Have one, not have one, I really don't care, I just think it gets silly after awhile.
Is my daughter gifted because she has been writing stories since age 4 (ok at 4 she dictated the story to me) clear stories with a plot and beginning and end?

I can't imagine having or needing a forum for my five wonderful, intelligent kids whose intelligence I've never tested because I don't see the need to.

overthehill

Wed, Dec 15 2010, 11:44 am

I think it also depends on the enviroment your kid is in. For example, if your kid happens to be one of the oldestin a class with immature kids, he may seem gifted because he is the smartest, gets the highest grades etc.
Put that same kid in another class with older or more mature kids, that so called gifted kid may not be so gifted anymore.

Personally, I dont think anyone should be considered gifted until they are proven (Via testing which I know may not be that accurate)

We Jewish mothers tend to think that are kids are gifted way too quickly . It must be an ego thing for us.

marina

Wed, Dec 15 2010, 11:45 am

I'm not offended, but I do find it counterproductively self-centered.

But at the same time, so many of the private forums are just that, including the hashkafa-problems forum that is also being suggested.

Most private forums, in my experience, consist of a small percentage of useful advice and discussion and a huge percentage of pity party and trash talking about the people who are not in that forum.

Seraph

Wed, Dec 15 2010, 11:48 am

louche wrote:

Do you think the same about any parent of any "ordinary" kid who has complaints about things?

Again, this is why such a forum would be beneficial. Because then such "complaints", even if they existed, wouldn't be taken as offensive, because everyone is in the same boat.