Gifted forum- offensive? One upmanship?

Seraph

Thu, Dec 16 2010, 1:23 pm

cubbie wrote:

Not at all offensive - but maybe it's because I grew up in a house with a gifted child, my brother, academic genius. Growing up I watched him suffer socially and emotionally and I was forever grateful that I was not blessed with his brain. Now he has found his niche, and is far more content, but life for him is still far more of a struggle than it needs to be.
Believe me I daven for (top end of) average children, well my eldest isn't average in any way shape or form, she isn't what I'd call gifted, and is far more mainstream than a gifted child could ever be, nonetheless she is very bright - above average and she suffers for it.
BTW Seraph, it's wierd how much you remind me of my brother - I told him about your blog and hope he and my SIL will enjoy it - it's totally their cup of tea.

Weird that I remind you of your brother...

marina

Thu, Dec 16 2010, 1:26 pm

amother: I suggested the Davidson academy guidelines b/c in my experience, the more profoundly gifted a child is, the more support they will need. These guidelines represent the most severe level of giftedness and that's probably where I would think parents would need more opportunities to brainstorm and get ideas from each other. If your child is doing college level work in middle school, yes, chances are that you will need some sort of support.

As an aside, I think every child can benefit from being treated as though he or she is gifted and I think that any good teacher or parent does so automatically. But if you are selecting criteria for a closed forum, parents of kids above the 99%ile would be more in need than parents of kids above the 85th or whatever.

Seraph: I apologize if I am mischaracterizing your position. However, if you are fine with people in your forum who are not supportive about your ideas with gifted children, then I'm not sure how it will differ from what we already have without a closed forum. Even if you exclude all the people who think the idea of a gifted forum is offensive (all of what, 8?) then I think you will still be having the same frustrations you are feeling now. But maybe I'm wrong, it's happened before Wink

Last edited by marina on Thu, Dec 16 2010, 1:28 pm; edited 2 times in total

Mirabelle

Thu, Dec 16 2010, 1:27 pm

I think a child can also be gifted in terms of social intelligence.

Let me tell you a true story about 2 boys.
A few years ago I was teaching a Talmud Torah class and there was one kid in the class who was deemed "gifted" by his public school, in all the honors classes, etc, BUT he was horrible socially, had no friends in either public school or the Talmud Torah. I felt really bad for the kid as he was often times quite lonely and miserable. His mother worried about his social abilities greatly.

In the same class there was another kid who had severe learning disabilities and was quite delayed as a baby. His mother told me he didn't talk until he was five. However, he had a "million dollar personality" and had a ton of friends. He was a very happy kid who always had a smile on his face. Clearly his social intelligence was very high even though he struggled greatly in school. His mother always worried about his future but I told her with a personality like that I think he would make due just fine and I still believe it.

I know the kid with the learning issues struggled in school greatly but I really think he will have an easier time as he grows up because he knows how to relate to people so well.

Barbara

Thu, Dec 16 2010, 1:31 pm

To respond to the question posed to Marina about why objective criteria are preferable:

Child 1 underwent a comprehensive psych-ed evaluation in 5th grade, performed by a tester recommended for testing children for admission into the Hunter College High School program. Her math scores tested at 2 to 3 grades above grade level. Her reading scores had a scatter between 3 and 8 grades above grade level. In one reading subtest, she obtained the highest score that the tester -- who had tested about 800 students for Hunter admissions -- had ever seen.

Child 2 was also in 5th grade, tested by the NYC DOE for special education services. His IQ was reported to be 89.

Child 3 is somewhat older, in 8th grade, and also tested by the DOE. Her reading scores were tested at the 11th to 12th grade range. Her math placement was college-level, as she apparently taught herself both algebra and geometry. No IQ test was performed.

Child 4 is in pre-K (sorry they're out of order). He taught himself to read and write, and spends a substantial amount of time during his school day writing stories and lists.

Which, if any, of these children (all real) qualify as *gifted* according to your criteria?

Objective answer to follow.

cubbie

Thu, Dec 16 2010, 1:33 pm

Seraph wrote:

cubbie wrote:

Weird that I remind you of your brother...

How can I explain it, he's the only other person I know with a solar cooker, he thinks it's totally cool that his wife crochets the plastic bags into shopping bags, he can spend all day doing cooking experiments just to get to the point that he's making his own of something rather than having to rely on buying it, so many more things that have come up over time but I can't think of them offhand.

HindaRochel

Thu, Dec 16 2010, 1:34 pm

Mirabelle wrote:

Your supposition is borne out by recent studies...EQ is more important than IQ

Barbara

Thu, Dec 16 2010, 1:38 pm

HindaRochel wrote:

Mirabelle wrote:

Your supposition is borne out by recent studies...EQ is more important than IQ

Important in what respect?

Hashem_Yaazor

Thu, Dec 16 2010, 1:38 pm

marina wrote:

HY:

Quote:

I happen to do well on standardized testing; I don't think I'm gifted though.

This explanation works for younger children. A four year old can happen to do well on standardized testing and not be gifted. A fourteen year old cannot. So if you got above a 1510 on the SAT at age 14-15, you cannot be of average intelligence.

My point is that I don't think being of above average intelligence makes one gifted. And I think someone can be smart and do well on those tests and still not be gifted. I don't think there is an easy to give criteria.

small bean

Thu, Dec 16 2010, 1:39 pm

Barbara wrote:

child 3 is me... I did that and I am in no way gifted. my math levels were always much higher then avg and when I was bored in school (any subject) I would teach myself math for fun -just cuz I love it...

I've taken actuary tests just from buying 1 book and scored high marks.

Mirabelle

Thu, Dec 16 2010, 1:40 pm

HindaRochel wrote:

Mirabelle wrote:

Your supposition is borne out by recent studies...EQ is more important than IQ

As an educator it was very interesting for me to watch these two "opposite kids" and how their different kinds of "gifts" (high EQ vs high IQ) manifested themselves in real life. I know that the mother of the kid with the high EQ worries about him, but personally I think in the end she has it easier than the mother of the other kid.

Mirabelle

Thu, Dec 16 2010, 1:44 pm

small bean wrote:

Barbara wrote:

When I was in 3rd grade I tested into 12th grade+ reading level, I don't think it makes me gifted, I was just always really good with reading and reading comprehension. I also scored in the highest percentile for reading on my SATS.

Now math was another story! Wink

Seraph

Thu, Dec 16 2010, 1:46 pm

cubbie wrote:

Seraph wrote:

cubbie wrote:

Weird that I remind you of your brother...

Haha, too funny! Where does he live?

saw50st8

Thu, Dec 16 2010, 1:59 pm

amother wrote:

When my sister was 5 1/2 this was a long time ago lol, she got tested for an IQ test because she was doing so well in school and she was in first grade and all. Her score was something like 124 , 125, what does that mean? Because my parents thought she was a genious etc, but I mean she seems normal to me.

That's on the higher end of normal. Smart, but not genius.

ora_43

Thu, Dec 16 2010, 2:01 pm

marina wrote:

Quote:

I happen to do well on standardized testing; I don't think I'm gifted though.

?
The SAT is fairly basic math. It's not like a 15-year-old would have to be a genius to do well, they'd just have to remember what they were taught about geometry and grammar. Not that 1510 isn't a good score, but the SAT is a "do you test well" test, not a test of advanced material, IMO.

I would add, a person of average intelligence could be above grade level because they were taught well. In high school my teachers were impressed at how I did in a particular subject - which, not coincidentally, was one of the ones my father teaches, at a university level. I'm guessing that skewed the curve somewhat, ie, my "top 10%" was really a "top 70% of kids whose parents have a masters in this subject."