UGH! Inconsiderate guests!!!

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ceo

Tue, Aug 29 2006, 11:09 pm

LAst Wed. night, a single woman in the area called and asked if she and a friend could come for lunch on shabbos. I said, "Sure. We eat at 11:30."

Then, Thursday, she called me and said, "Hi, is it okay if we come closer to 12. It's my friend's (the one who was coming with her) brother's aufruf, so we can't really get there by 11:30."

First off, I though that was weird, the friend doesn't want to eat w/ her family if its her brother's aufruf? Whatevr, I figured she has family problems or something. BUT, we can't start at 12, because my DH has a chavrusa after lunch, and I like him to help me put DS down for a nap. So I said, "No, I'm sorry, 12 o'clock doesn't work for our family." Then she said, "Okay, so we'll just come when as soon as we can, and don't wait for us." That's fine- I made sure to have extra challah, grape juice, etc.

Well, then ONE HOUR before shabbos, she calls and tells me they're not coming! I made extra food assuming that Iwas having these two guests. She told me her friend decided that it would be to hectic to rush from the aufruf, and she didn't want to come alone, so she found another place to go. I understand that (kind of, it's not like she's never been to us before), but one hour before shabbos!!! So rude!
Exploding anger

okay, thanks for listening!

southernbubby

Tue, Aug 29 2006, 11:17 pm

While she might be hard to take, what if guests wake up Shabbos morning with a fever and sore throat? Should they still show up because of the extra food? Part of having Shabbos guests is anticipating that more or less than the invited amount could end up eating at your table.

Pickle Lady

Wed, Aug 30 2006, 12:53 am

wow lunch at 11:30 is amazing!!! DH doesn't come home from shul till atleast 1:30 and lunch doesn't start til atleast 2 -2:30 wow

Also its happens. I have had that many times. Just go with the flow. Thats what it means to have guests.

happymom

Wed, Aug 30 2006, 1:29 am

that is very rude. I can understand why it bothered u.

shabbatiscoming

Wed, Aug 30 2006, 4:20 am

Pickle Lady wrote:

I dont know where the OP is from, but here in israel, beit knesset usually finishes by anywhere from 9:30 to 11:00 and so, many families even have lunch at a quarter to 11.
did that take me forever to get used to:)

shalhevet

Wed, Aug 30 2006, 4:32 am

shabbatiscoming wrote:

Yes, dh usually comes home at 10 - 10.30.

Even when I lived in England people started very late at 9 and finished by 12 (including a chazan and choir and sermon).

How on earth do you have davenning until 1.30 shock

? Do you start very late (what about zman krias shema?) or do you daven all the YK davenning every Shabbos?!

Quote:

and lunch doesn't start til atleast 2 -2:30

Do you do that in the winter too?
So when do you eat seuda shlishit?

Raisin

Wed, Aug 30 2006, 6:07 am

mummyof6 wrote:

shabbatiscoming wrote:

? Do you start very late (what about zman krias shema?) or do you daven all the YK davenning every Shabbos?!

Quote:

and lunch doesn't start til atleast 2 -2:30

Do you do that in the winter too?
So when do you eat seuda shlishit?

In Lubavitch shuls people study Chassidus before davenning, so they usually start at 10.

We don't daven in a Lubavitch Shul, but they finish at 12 and then there is a kiddush till about 1. We live next door to the shul, so we get home then, but there are plenty of people who have a half hour walk. (or drive Rolling Eyes

)

Bear in mind that where I live, in the summer most people don't start their shabbos meal till 9pm at least, and thats with bringing in shabbos early. So getting up at 7am or whatever to daven is not exactly restful. Plus shabbos doesn't go out until 10.30 or 11. What are people going to do from when they finish eating until then? There is only so much sleeping one can do!

I once had Israeli guests who were so rude. We told them that we were not eating till 1.30 because there was aufruf or Bar Mitzva or something which we had to stay on for. They said, no they had to eat early, they couldn't wait. (I didn't invite these guys...they invited themselves) So I agreed that they could come in and serve themselves (my dh insisted) The worst was we had a guest that week who was allergic to paprika. I had 2 pots of cholent, one with paprika, (actually leftover goulash from friday night) and one without. They managed to mix up the 2 pots, using the same spoon, so our allergic guest didn't get any.

These people left a really bad taste in my mouth.

shabbatiscoming

Wed, Aug 30 2006, 6:16 am

Rifky wrote:

In Lubavitch shuls people study Chassidus before davenning, so they usually start at 10.

how do they daven on time for sofe zman kriyat shema? I always wondered that even growing up in america. they start at about a quarter to 9 and finished at 11:30 or 12 and diefinitely passed the time.

Quote:

I once had Israeli guests who were so rude. We told them that we were not eating till 1.30 because there was aufruf or Bar Mitzva or something which we had to stay on for. They said, no they had to eat early, they couldn't wait. (I didn't invite these guys...they invited themselves) So I agreed that they could come in and serve themselves (my dh insisted) The worst was we had a guest that week who was allergic to paprika. I had 2 pots of cholent, one with paprika, (actually leftover goulash from friday night) and one without. They managed to mix up the 2 pots, using the same spoon, so our allergic guest didn't get any.These people left a really bad taste in my mouth.

dont judge all israelis just because of your guests, please. there are many israelis who are beautiful ppl. I do not think that being israeli had to do with their lack of tact or being nice guests. it was probably just them.

Raisin

Wed, Aug 30 2006, 6:19 am

southernbubby wrote:

I sure you don't cancel on hosts 1 hour before Shabbos, Southern Bubby. Nobody minds if their guests don't turn up because of a good reason. I'm sorry, ceo's guest had a really bad reason. It's not just the extra food. If I were to eat alone with my family (it NEVER happens) I would prepare a very different meal than if I have guests.

btw this sort of scenario happens almost every week in my house. Either guests cancel, or 10 extra people show up without bothering to let me know. I think I must have a reputation as some sort of superwomen with mind reading powers. Very Happy

This is a phone conversation I had last week.

Rring: Hello, Is this Chabad?

Me. Yes

Caller: I want to know if we can come to Shabbat on friday night.

Me: yes, no problem.

Caller: what time it is?

Me: 8pm

Caller: thank you, bye!

Me: How many are there of you?

Caller: has put down the phone and disappered.

I had no way of calling back, and it didn't occur to them that they had left out some information. b'h there were only 2 of them.

ButterflyGarden

Wed, Aug 30 2006, 6:52 am

Quote:

lunch doesn't start til atleast 2 -2:30 wow

My DH is home by 10 (1030 if there is a simcha). I would die if I had to wait till 2 every week. What about not fasting more then half the day? In my FIL's community they start late and after shul have a kiddush then learn a bit and daven mincha before everyone leaves. They eat SOOOOO very late. Fortunately, they only do this in the winter when people would have to walk back in the snow. We usually don't go there then anyway (because of the snow, not the wait).

shalhevet

Wed, Aug 30 2006, 8:56 am

Rifky wrote:

In Lubavitch shuls people study Chassidus before davenning, so they usually start at 10.

Isn't there a chiyuv to daven once it's time? And what about sof zeman kriyas shema?

Quote:

We don't daven in a Lubavitch Shul, but they finish at 12 and then there is a kiddush till about 1. We live next door to the shul, so we get home then, but there are plenty of people who have a half hour walk. (or drive Rolling Eyes

)

I'd skip the kiddush LOL

Quote:

Bear in mind that where I live, in the summer most people don't start their shabbos meal till 9pm at least, and thats with bringing in shabbos early. So getting up at 7am or whatever to daven is not exactly restful.

In EY we also don't eat till about 9 in the middle of the summer (admittedly bringing in Shabbos on time and not early). I didn't get where it says it halacha that Shabbos is supposed to be "restful". Shabbos is a bris (covenant) between Hashem and us, to be used for keeping the Shabbos mitzvas and recharging out spiritual batteries. I know it says that "shaina beShabbos ta'anug" (sleep on Shabbos is a pleasure) but there's no reason not to fulfil that on Shabbos afternoon after having davenned and eaten on time.

Quote:

Plus shabbos doesn't go out until 10.30 or 11. What are people going to do from when they finish eating until then? There is only so much sleeping one can do!

That's a strange remark Confused

Is that what Shabbos is, eating and sleeping?
What happened to learning Torah, reading, spending time with our families, saying Tehilim, learning and teaching the parasha and/or Shabbos halachos to our children, going to shiurim (and I still haven't got an answer about Seuda Shlishit in the winter)

Quote:

I once had Israeli guests who were so rude.

If anyone doesn't have a problem with this remark, substitute Lubavitch/Chassidish/Litvish/American/English/BT/FFB or however else you define yourself, in the story.

Quote:

We told them that we were not eating till 1.30 because there was aufruf or Bar Mitzva or something which we had to stay on for. They said, no they had to eat early, they couldn't wait. (I didn't invite these guys...they invited themselves) So I agreed that they could come in and serve themselves (my dh insisted) The worst was we had a guest that week who was allergic to paprika. I had 2 pots of cholent, one with paprika, (actually leftover goulash from friday night) and one without. They managed to mix up the 2 pots, using the same spoon, so our allergic guest didn't get any.

These people left a really bad taste in my mouth.

Agreed - what a way to behave!

Actually the worst I had was the opposite, when 2 sem girls stayed at us and were still sleeping when dh came home from shul at around 10.30 am, even though we'd told them when we were eating. I think in the end we started without them and gave them wine and challa when they got up (and of course a meal!)[/quote]

chocolate moose

Wed, Aug 30 2006, 9:50 am

it's not easy, whatever way you slice it.

granolamom

Wed, Aug 30 2006, 9:52 am

I agree, its rude. and that sort of thing has happened to me too(someone comes for yom tov and forgets to tell me he's eating out 2/4 meals). its frustrating, but I think you still get some schar for preparing for the guests. that sometimes helps take the edge of the irritation.

Tefila

Wed, Aug 30 2006, 9:54 am

Quote:

btw this sort of scenario happens almost every week in my house. Either guests cancel, or 10 extra people show up without bothering to let me know. I think I must have a reputation as some sort of superwomen with mind reading powers.

Ditto

ceo

Wed, Aug 30 2006, 1:52 pm

southernbubby wrote:

I've had guests not show for that exact reason! Once, a friend who lives 1/2 mile a way woke up with a fever, and she wasn't going to walk to my house just to tell me that- that doesn't bother me one bit. But this guest was making a conscious descsion to not come and letting me an hour before shabbos is simply not considerate.

Once, some non-frum college kids were in town on a shabbaton, and two were scheduled to eat with us. They never showed- honestly, that didn't really bother me because I was assuming that since they're not frum,( it was their first shabbos experience,) they didn't really know what to expect- meaning- they probably didn't realize that I prepared "real food." When they heard the word "lunch", they might have thought Pb & j sandwhiches!

But this girl, who is frum and knows about shabbos, I expect that she has at least some inkling of the preparation and work that goes into making shabbos! We are only two people, so yes, two extra guests is a big difference in how I prepare.

And for those asking about Krias Shema and chassidim/zman- perhaps start a new thread? Also, you have to understand that there is a mesorah from the Bashet to learn, say tehillim, daven later, etc. The chassidim who do this don't really have to answer to you, kwim?

On a side note, once we were in skver for shabbos, and our hostess was telling my husband the davening schedule. When he heard that they start shacharis at 11 am, he said, "Do you think anyone would mind if I davened on my own earlier? " She said, "Of course not! What, you tihnk you're the first litvak that ever came here for shabbos?" Very Happy

morningstar

Wed, Aug 30 2006, 2:00 pm

Mummy of six, I would agree with you--Shabbos is not all about eating and sleeping.

Some people honor Shabbos by getting up early to daven, and eating lunch no later than eleven.

Others honor Shabbos by getting up early, learning two or three hours before davening, and then, sufficiently inspired, spending more time than usual on davening.

Even getting up at five or six in the morning, it is possible for a chassidishe yid to still be davening at two in the afternoon.

One of the beautiful things about Yiddishkeit is that there are many ways to serve Hashem.

Ve'Ameich kulam tzaddikim.

Raisin

Wed, Aug 30 2006, 4:15 pm

mummyof6 wrote:

[I'd skip the kiddush LOL

Even if you were the Rabbi/rebbetzin of the Shul???? shock

I'm sorry if I caused offence to any Israelis. We have many wonderful Israeli guests who come to us for shabbos, and they are a pleasure to have.

I was just mentioning that as a description. What was worse is that they were extremely frum people, who should have known better.

We have also had rude lubavitch, litvish, american, english etc etc guests. But you don't want to hear those stories.

bandcm

Wed, Aug 30 2006, 7:00 pm

Mummyof6, Lubavitchers don´t eat seuda shlishis. Well maybe some do, but in principle we don´t.
2 reasons: It says `hayom` twice so we eat only 2 meals.
It is a very holy time, so we sing nigunim and learn at that time, rather than eating.
Often it just leads straight on from the Shabbos meal.

Motek

Thu, Aug 31 2006, 1:01 pm

Shma is said before the zman kerias Shma is over (of course!).

For more of an explanation about times for davening, davening late, what the halacha is, see the thread, "How would you define/describe a Chassidic Woman?" in the Judaism section, page (6) 7. I will not repeat it here.

As for fasting or fainting away from hunger - Chassidim eat mezonos before davening.

I personally make kiddush in the morning for myself so that I can eat whatever I want later on, when I'm hungry.

shalhevet

Thu, Aug 31 2006, 2:12 pm

Motek wrote:

I personally make kiddush in the morning for myself so that I can eat whatever I want later on, when I'm hungry.

<fainting> shock

Motek, wasn't that a bit personal for the forum? Soon you'll be revealing which continent you live on.

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