Tuition Dilemma | Imamother

amother

Mon, May 30 2011, 12:39 am

Great article by the tax lawyer. I think we need to start a revolt. Print the article, show it to the schools, and tell them that if they want tuition they need to fight for getting tuition vouchers from the government. The scientologists were much more dedicated to their goal than we are to ours. They succeeded because they were united and tenacious. The Jewish political power is so much greater than theirs. If we did what they did, we would all have free tuition by now.

saw50st8

Mon, May 30 2011, 7:00 am

Barbara wrote:

amother wrote:

Barbara wrote:

I'm curious what MO schools have right-wing teachers.

In central NJ, many (but not all) limudei kodesh teachers are from Lakewood.

Also ASHAR in Monsey.

(Actually, these teachers are considered right-wing to MO residents, but to us Yeshivish residents, we consider them MO. Go figure. This is why their population is declining, along with their tuition breaks.)

I live in Teaneck and Ashar is not considered MO. It's more right than YNJ which is a mix of right and MO.

Ashar considers itself MO. It certainly is MO compared to the rest of Monsey.

Ashar considers sitself MO, but its really at that iffy line. There is really a minimal MO community in Monsey now (I know the area of Monsey I grew up in is dying out of MO Jews) and ASHAR has to attract the local crowd. They are slowly going towards the Charedi line.

Barbara, I think LWMO schools don't have as many charedi teachers, but RWMO schools do. I don't see that as a negative necessarily...I don't mind my kids being exposed to some dose of Charedism, but I certainly had plenty of MO teachers in my MO school too.

amother

Tue, May 31 2011, 1:59 pm

amother wrote:

NO! It was not a great article! It was a terribly misleading article that implies the ability to deduct half of religious school tuition if you just get a bifurcated receipt is settled case law. IT IS NOT! In fact THE EXACT OPPOSITE is law:

http://en.wikisource.org/wiki/.....Court

Please don't call your school administrator with this nonsense.

amother

Thu, Jun 02 2011, 11:00 am

amother wrote:

IT IS NOT! In fact THE EXACT OPPOSITE is law:

http://en.wikisource.org/wiki/.....Court

That's exactly the point. the Sklars tried to deduct tuition and that's not allowed.
Paying for attending religious services and religious education is deductible. But, the school refused to cooperate with them. Scientology schools do cooperate, they give donation receipts (as opposed to tuition receipts), and their students get a legitimate tax deduction.

smiledr

Thu, Jun 02 2011, 12:16 pm

Its great u live within ur means but within ur means means not spending 5000 on a vacation and then asking pple luke me for help paying tuition. I also don't agree w ur rav who says it's ok uve got 50000 in the bank but don't pay full tuition. Its wrong to think its not a necassary expense...this is y there is a tuition crisis. If I were on the board us insist u pay full if u can afford to take ur family to israel. Im literally embarrased that anyone would think its ok...growing up my parents always paid tuition first. It came before camp new clothes etc and it wasn't easy but it was a priority as it should b for everyone otherwise send ur kid to public school so we don't have to pay ur tuition for u while ur off on vacation.

Hashem_Yaazor

Thu, Jun 02 2011, 12:26 pm

I hate to break it to you, but 50K in savings for a family is not that much if you have to pay an extra 10K a year in tuition for, say, 3, kids. At what point do you "allow" someone to have a cushion to fall back on?

I am all for paying tuition to whatever extent one can, but I do not believe that means having no savings.

We don't just have a tuition crisis. We have a large-scale economic crisis. That means virtually everyone's job is at risk (if you don't lose it, you still might not get paid) with no guarantee of replacement jobs available. Having a safety net at this time is more crucial than ever.
The tuition/paying schools/teachers/etc crisis is an aspect of this, and a major one to be dealt with, and that is why we need guidance to which point we prioritize it over savings for personal crises.

The people on the committee are OK with people having savings to a certain extent. Not 2 million dollars worth, but a small amount is totally acceptable. They're more concerned about income and expenditures/budget. They know something is off if you report you make 60K/year and your expenses total more than that. They have noses that can smell inconsistencies. And that's when they don't give breaks; but for people who are upfront and honest and really don't MAKE enough (not that they don't have a small amount tucked away) to pay full tuition, they have no qualms about giving breaks.

amother

Thu, Jun 02 2011, 1:49 pm

amother wrote:

IT IS NOT! In fact THE EXACT OPPOSITE is law:

http://en.wikisource.org/wiki/.....Court

Did you bother to read through the case law or are you just parroting the article? Scientologists are paying for "auditing" which the IRS has deemed an allowable religious service. The court's opinion is clear that this is a questionable IRS decision and a separate case could be brought against the decision. This would be comparable to going to your rav for spiritual guidance and then donating to his shul.

Separate from that, "tuition" payments to a school are not deductible since the parents receive a benefit for the funds they donate. It makes no difference what the school writes on the receipt, if the school is providing a benefit (I.e., educating your child), a deduction is not allowed. The only way around this is for the school to bifurcate the portion parents pay for educating their children and the portion they pay for scholarships to cover other kids’ tuition.

And by the way, you don't think private Catholic schools would love to deduct portions of their tuition as "religious services"? They've got even more political clout than Jewish schools, don't you think? They can't and don't because it is settled case law that tuition paid to a religious school can not be deducted, no matter what you call it. A rose by any other name smells just as sweet.

I’m curious when this article was written, I can only hope it was prior to the supreme court rejecting the Sklar's appeal.

amother

Thu, Jun 02 2011, 6:16 pm

Many many years ago, before the Sklar and before the scientology cases, we lived in a small town with one shul, and a Yeshiva being part of the shul. Everyone paid half for tuition for the secular education. The other half was paid as donations to the shul. The shul then, provided Torah studies to adults, children, anyone who wanted to learn.

The shul/yeshiva later got into trouble with the IRS because of other payroll issues and not sending employee deductions to the IRS. Their books were audited many times, practically every year. Not even once did the IRS ever raise any issue with the donations to the shul, because donations for religious services to synagogue/church members are always deductible. You don't need the supreme court for that.

By the way, in answer to the mention of the catholic schools, did you know that the USA average tuition in a catholic school is $3300 a year? At such a low number, the tax-deduction becomes negligible. That's why they don't bother.

amother

Fri, Jun 03 2011, 8:54 am

amother wrote:

The IRS and courts see a big difference between synagogues providing religious classes to anyone who wants to come and learn and religious schools providing an education only to tuition paying students. You yourself have stated the difference quite clearly "The shul then, provided Torah studies to adults, children, anyone who wanted to learn." This is not how yeshivas and day schools are run. You have to pay to attend, they are not providing a free service to all members of the community.

As for Catholic schools, given the number of schools that have been forced to close or consolidate recently given their funding troubles I'm sure they would take every bit of financial aid they could get. Unfortunately, tax deductions for a portion of tuition is not an option.

amother

Sun, Jun 19 2011, 12:14 am

I went to talk to the Rav of a conservative shul in town. This shul has many classrooms and they operate a Sunday and afternoon school for Jewish students who learn in public school. All payments are done as an enlarged membership fee paid to their synagogue. Everything is tax deductible.

Why can't our Yeshiva schools operate as a synagogue which teaches religious subjects to their members and their children?

Secular subjects can be taught by the school with obviously non-deductible tuition.