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shoshina
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 Mon, May 23 2011, 1:45 pm
Amother above, it's great that you were able to pay full tuition for your children for so long, and unfortunate that your husbands business was hit so hard, but now someone else is paying for part of your children's education, and they might very well be sacrificing a nice vacation this year so your children can be educated.
Personally, I'm not swayed by the idea that tuition matters, because you are capable of moving out of town, capable of delaying buying a home, and etc. It's difficult to turn down such a nice vacation, but will it really not be available next year?
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amother
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Mon, May 23 2011, 1:57 pm
| shoshina wrote: | Amother above, it's great that you were able to pay full tuition for your children for so long, and unfortunate that your husbands business was hit so hard, but now someone else is paying for part of your children's education, and they might very well be sacrificing a nice vacation this year so your children can be educated.
Personally, I'm not swayed by the idea that tuition matters, because you are capable of moving out of town, capable of delaying buying a home, and etc. It's difficult to turn down such a nice vacation, but will it really not be available next year? |
Thanks for being nice about your opinion! 
To answer its not as if I'm getting a huge tuition break, I believe there is way more of a cushion as part of our tuition in our particular school than in most. I'm still paying a very nice amount and while I may not be helping someone else's child out this year because I'm not paying full I feel like I'm most certainly covering my own children's tuition.
I moved to this city from a different community where expenses were much higher and for specific reasons without giving too much information away it was very important for us to buy a house at this time.
About going next year - we obviously would not be going if we needed to cover the cost ourselves. No question. Also due to certain circumstances (a family illness ) we feel like its important for us to go this year.
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shoshina
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Mon, May 23 2011, 2:10 pm
Amother above,
If it is a question of not seeing someone again (the illness) I would say go. BUT I also think you need to disclose this trip to the tuition committee, and if the tuition committee reduces your assistance because of the trip, you have to accept that decision too. It would not be unfair if they reduced your assistance.
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JAWSCIENCE
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Mon, May 23 2011, 2:18 pm
To the second amother - no I do not think the amount of tuition matters. If you think the school is outrageously overpriced then you should send to another school. Yes I know some people must live in certain places for various reasons but that means you have to deal with the cost of living in that place and not compare it to others unless you are willing to move. Who knows, maybe tuition is so high because so many people are not paying it.... A better approach to dealing with an overpriced school would be to get involved in some sort of school reform (or vote with your feet). I fully agree that for a variety of reasons that differ from location to location many of our schools are way overpriced. Not paying is not a good form of protest.
You asked for the school to sacrifice and give you a break because your husband's business is hurting. That's all well and good. But to then go on an expensive vacation means that 1)that money is not needed for savings 2)you have that money. If you are so confident in your savings and don't need this money for any other essential purposes then it ought to go to the school because that is the sacrifice we all have to make in these very hard times. The school gives breaks so people can maintain a decent standard of living despite being hit by hard times. Going on overseas vacations is not really necessary to maintain a decent standard of living. An education for your kids is. There needs to be some priority setting. You need to be honest with the school and with yourself about what the right thing to do is. Asking a Rav might also help.
I have not been to Israel except for once when I was too little to remember it (maybe 3 or something). People are constantly shocked at this. It seems going to Israel has become the right of every Jewish child and it is unheard of in some circles not to have been there by the time you are 26. Well, guess what, it is not a right that comes over paying tuition. It is not something essential to life to take ones kids to Israel or to pay upwards of ten grand (that you don't have) to send them to seminary there. If you ask a school to make sacrifices you have to make some too. It does not matter that you paid in full last year - your kid is still going to the school THIS year. The school still needs to provide services etc. They do not have extra money from last year to cover you for this year because you'd rather go to Israel than pay tuition. Halivei that we endowed our schools so that this could be possible.
I hope your husbands business picks up again so you won't have to deal with this issue anymore. Your tuition bill is huge and I am sure it really hurts to pay it. I know how humiliating and sad it can be to have to ask for help and to not be able to go on trips to Israel and such like everyone else. I know how hard it can be to do the right thing when it seems like everyone else is not. But none of those things are good enough excuses to spend that much money on a luxury while at the same time asking for a tuition break.
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JAWSCIENCE
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Mon, May 23 2011, 2:22 pm
| amother wrote: |
To answer its not as if I'm getting a huge tuition break, I believe there is way more of a cushion as part of our tuition in our particular school than in most. I'm still paying a very nice amount and while I may not be helping someone else's child out this year because I'm not paying full I feel like I'm most certainly covering my own children's tuition.
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If your school is forcing you to pay scholarships for other kids tuition this is something you need to speak to them about. Because many people think this is the case when sometimes it is not. You need to know for sure. You also need tot ell them that they should not be bundling it this way because it hurts you tax wise since you cannot claim it as a deduction.
You can also ask your Rav if the amount of scholarship money can be deducted from your maaser money. Many hold it can (NOT on your taxes. For that you need the school to stop making it required and bundling it into regular tuition )
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JAWSCIENCE
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Mon, May 23 2011, 2:25 pm
| amother wrote: | | Also due to certain circumstances (a family illness ) we feel like its important for us to go this year. |
I did not see this in the original post. Does this means the trip is not a vacation and is for the purposes of dealing with sick family? That takes this out of the realm of something for us to discuss and makes it more of something for a Rav to decide. The Rav may very well advise you that the daughter of the choleh should go while the rest stay behind for instance.
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amother
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Mon, May 23 2011, 2:25 pm
| JAWSCIENCE wrote: | To the second amother - no I do not think the amount of tuition matters. If you think the school is outrageously overpriced then you should send to another school. Yes I know some people must live in certain places for various reasons but that means you have to deal with the cost of living in that place and not compare it to others unless you are willing to move. Who knows, maybe tuition is so high because so many people are not paying it.... A better approach to dealing with an overpriced school would be to get involved in some sort of school reform (or vote with your feet). I fully agree that for a variety of reasons that differ from location to location many of our schools are way overpriced. Not paying is not a good form of protest.
You asked for the school to sacrifice and give you a break because your husband's business is hurting. That's all well and good. But to then go on an expensive vacation means that 1)that money is not needed for savings 2)you have that money. If you are so confident in your savings and don't need this money for any other essential purposes then it ought to go to the school because that is the sacrifice we all have to make in these very hard times. The school gives breaks so people can maintain a decent standard of living despite being hit by hard times. Going on overseas vacations is not really necessary to maintain a decent standard of living. An education for your kids is. There needs to be some priority setting. You need to be honest with the school and with yourself about what the right thing to do is. Asking a Rav might also help.
I have not been to Israel except for once when I was too little to remember it (maybe 3 or something). People are constantly shocked at this. It seems going to Israel has become the right of every Jewish child and it is unheard of in some circles not to have been there by the time you are 26. Well, guess what, it is not a right that comes over paying tuition. It is not something essential to life to take ones kids to Israel or to pay upwards of ten grand (that you don't have) to send them to seminary there. If you ask a school to make sacrifices you have to make some too. It does not matter that you paid in full last year - your kid is still going to the school THIS year. The school still needs to provide services etc. They do not have extra money from last year to cover you for this year because you'd rather go to Israel than pay tuition. Halivei that we endowed our schools so that this could be possible.
I hope your husbands business picks up again so you won't have to deal with this issue anymore. Your tuition bill is huge and I am sure it really hurts to pay it. I know how humiliating and sad it can be to have to ask for help and to not be able to go on trips to Israel and such like everyone else. I know how hard it can be to do the right thing when it seems like everyone else is not. But none of those things are good enough excuses to spend that much money on a luxury while at the same time asking for a tuition break. |
I read through this really quickly and don't ahve the time to properly respond right now but I think some of you may have missed that we are NOT paying for this trip. It will cost us $1500 more than what it will cost to send our kids to day camp. No my inlaws won't give us the money instead to pay full tuition so it's not like we can tell them to do that instead of paying for our trip. This is coming from them, not us. They happen to live in Israel and thats the reason we're going. Not because of a selfish spoiled reason of wanting to take vacation.
I know my parents donate to the school as well and like I said I believe that I am paying the full amount to educate my kids. maybe not helping someone elses kids but definitely paying my own way.
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amother
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Mon, May 23 2011, 2:26 pm
| JAWSCIENCE wrote: | | amother wrote: |
To answer its not as if I'm getting a huge tuition break, I believe there is way more of a cushion as part of our tuition in our particular school than in most. I'm still paying a very nice amount and while I may not be helping someone else's child out this year because I'm not paying full I feel like I'm most certainly covering my own children's tuition.
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If your school is forcing you to pay scholarships for other kids tuition this is something you need to speak to them about. Because many people think this is the case when sometimes it is not. You need to know for sure. You also need tot ell them that they should not be bundling it this way because it hurts you tax wise since you cannot claim it as a deduction.
You can also ask your Rav if the amount of scholarship money can be deducted from your maaser money. Many hold it can (NOT on your taxes. For that you need the school to stop making it required and bundling it into regular tuition ) |
I know for sure that that a certain amount of our tuition goes to a scholarship fund. It is part of the full tuition bundle.
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amother
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Mon, May 23 2011, 2:28 pm
| JAWSCIENCE wrote: | | amother wrote: | | Also due to certain circumstances (a family illness ) we feel like its important for us to go this year. |
I did not see this in the original post. Does this means the trip is not a vacation and is for the purposes of dealing with sick family? That takes this out of the realm of something for us to discuss and makes it more of something for a Rav to decide. The Rav may very well advise you that the daughter of the choleh should go while the rest stay behind for instance. |
Its not an illness we are dealing with at the moment, it;s one that we dealt with over the last year. This trip is not meant to be a luxury vacation by a long shot. We're not staying in hotels or going on luxury tours when we are there. Its about family and nothing else. Thanks for trying to clarify!!
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aidelmaidel
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Mon, May 23 2011, 2:30 pm
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I think one of the KEY things in negotiating tuition cost, is being honest about what you can realistically pay. (And I don't mean that you try to get away as cheap as possible). I mean that I absolutely refuse to commit to a figure that I know I can't afford. Between camp and school, my costs are going up 70% this year. I had to fight to keep them at 70% - I can't realistically afford beyond that. (Kids are shifting tuition brackets - lower elementary to upper elementary, etc).
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Barbara
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Mon, May 23 2011, 2:43 pm
Pigybacking on Jawscience's comments, unfortunately, a large number of people in the Jewish community have lost their jobs, or lost a substantial portion of their income. I know that our school is experiencing serious economic issues as a result. Frankly, based on what *I* am paying, I don't think that $9000 is expensive. Nor do I think that an almost 25% tuition reduction can in any way be considered minimal.
Our class size is 20. At 9000 per year, even with 25 per class, that's $225,000 per class. That has to pay for at least 2 teachers, administrators, books and other supplies, janitorial staff, insurance, heat, snow removal, benefits for teachers, etc. It doesn't seem likely that there is a lot of fat in the budget; a nearly 25% hit for multiple kids has got to hurt.
That's not to say that a break should not be given when needed. But I have to tell you, sitting where I am -- not having gone on any vacation at all in several years, not anticipating one this year, etc etc, I would have questions about our school granting financial aid to a family that just bought a home that cost at least $350,000, and that is able to vacation in Israel. (BTW, the camp argument would fall on deaf ears for me. If you're able to take that long to vacation in Israel, you could take the same time to be home with the kids, obviating the need for camp.)
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amother
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Mon, May 23 2011, 2:55 pm
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I'm sitting here laughing... I pay about 20k per kid. Sorry, 9k isn't that expensive.
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jewels
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Mon, May 23 2011, 2:59 pm
| amother wrote: | | I'm sitting here laughing... I pay about 20k per kid. Sorry, 9k isn't that expensive. |
Whether it's 3k, 9k, or 20k it's all alot in today's economy. I don't see any reason to belittle anyone else especially not under amother.
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Liba
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Mon, May 23 2011, 3:40 pm
I am just stuck on this, how are you getting 5+ (two parents, three school age children, plus possible children not yet in school?) plane tickets to E"Y for $4000? Tickets are hard to find that cheap, and summer tickets are usually so expensive.
What happens if tickets are $6 or even $8,000?
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JAWSCIENCE
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Mon, May 23 2011, 3:47 pm
| amother wrote: | | JAWSCIENCE wrote: | To the second amother - no I do not think the amount of tuition matters. If you think the school is outrageously overpriced then you should send to another school. Yes I know some people must live in certain places for various reasons but that means you have to deal with the cost of living in that place and not compare it to others unless you are willing to move. Who knows, maybe tuition is so high because so many people are not paying it.... A better approach to dealing with an overpriced school would be to get involved in some sort of school reform (or vote with your feet). I fully agree that for a variety of reasons that differ from location to location many of our schools are way overpriced. Not paying is not a good form of protest.
You asked for the school to sacrifice and give you a break because your husband's business is hurting. That's all well and good. But to then go on an expensive vacation means that 1)that money is not needed for savings 2)you have that money. If you are so confident in your savings and don't need this money for any other essential purposes then it ought to go to the school because that is the sacrifice we all have to make in these very hard times. The school gives breaks so people can maintain a decent standard of living despite being hit by hard times. Going on overseas vacations is not really necessary to maintain a decent standard of living. An education for your kids is. There needs to be some priority setting. You need to be honest with the school and with yourself about what the right thing to do is. Asking a Rav might also help.
I have not been to Israel except for once when I was too little to remember it (maybe 3 or something). People are constantly shocked at this. It seems going to Israel has become the right of every Jewish child and it is unheard of in some circles not to have been there by the time you are 26. Well, guess what, it is not a right that comes over paying tuition. It is not something essential to life to take ones kids to Israel or to pay upwards of ten grand (that you don't have) to send them to seminary there. If you ask a school to make sacrifices you have to make some too. It does not matter that you paid in full last year - your kid is still going to the school THIS year. The school still needs to provide services etc. They do not have extra money from last year to cover you for this year because you'd rather go to Israel than pay tuition. Halivei that we endowed our schools so that this could be possible.
I hope your husbands business picks up again so you won't have to deal with this issue anymore. Your tuition bill is huge and I am sure it really hurts to pay it. I know how humiliating and sad it can be to have to ask for help and to not be able to go on trips to Israel and such like everyone else. I know how hard it can be to do the right thing when it seems like everyone else is not. But none of those things are good enough excuses to spend that much money on a luxury while at the same time asking for a tuition break. |
I read through this really quickly and don't ahve the time to properly respond right now but I think some of you may have missed that we are NOT paying for this trip. It will cost us $1500 more than what it will cost to send our kids to day camp. No my inlaws won't give us the money instead to pay full tuition so it's not like we can tell them to do that instead of paying for our trip. This is coming from them, not us. They happen to live in Israel and thats the reason we're going. Not because of a selfish spoiled reason of wanting to take vacation.
I know my parents donate to the school as well and like I said I believe that I am paying the full amount to educate my kids. maybe not helping someone elses kids but definitely paying my own way. |
I actually did realize that much of the money was sponsored and that you would only have to pay 1500. But 1500 is still a lot of money. At least to me... This might speak to the difference in our incomes 
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JAWSCIENCE
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Mon, May 23 2011, 3:57 pm
| Liba wrote: | I am just stuck on this, how are you getting 5+ (two parents, three school age children, plus possible children not yet in school?) plane tickets to E"Y for $4000? Tickets are hard to find that cheap, and summer tickets are usually so expensive.
What happens if tickets are $6 or even $8,000? |
It's not just 1500, it's also the amount of money should we pay for a camp. She is saying 1500 because she would spend the camp money anyway. I am inclined to agree with barbara about the camp issue though.
Also as a dan lekaf zechus measure for those angrily eyeing neighbors taking trips while the school is hurting - we are going to Israel this summer as a family with my in laws for a total of 7 adults. We paid nothing for the flights. We got ridiculous mileage deals through hours of labor on finding good mileage earning deals and got all the tickets for free with miles. My husband is a mileage genius. And if you stay by your Israeli relatives that means the trip could be less expensive than someone else's local vacation. This sort of thing is rare but it DOES happen.
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Liba
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Mon, May 23 2011, 4:11 pm
| JAWSCIENCE wrote: | | Liba wrote: | I am just stuck on this, how are you getting 5+ (two parents, three school age children, plus possible children not yet in school?) plane tickets to E"Y for $4000? Tickets are hard to find that cheap, and summer tickets are usually so expensive.
What happens if tickets are $6 or even $8,000? |
It's not just 1500, it's also the amount of money should we pay for a camp. She is saying 1500 because she would spend the camp money anyway. I am inclined to agree with barbara about the camp issue though.
Also as a dan lekaf zechus measure for those angrily eyeing neighbors taking trips while the school is hurting - we are going to Israel this summer as a family with my in laws for a total of 7 adults. We paid nothing for the flights. We got ridiculous mileage deals through hours of labor on finding good mileage earning deals and got all the tickets for free with miles. My husband is a mileage genius. And if you stay by your Israeli relatives that means the trip could be less expensive than someone else's local vacation. This sort of thing is rare but it DOES happen. |
I didn't ask how she was getting five+ tickets for $1,500, I asked how she was getting 5+ tickets for $4,000.  We got an awesome deal, and are flying from E"Y to the US is cheaper than the US to E"Y and it was still almost $1,000 per ticket.
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Raisin
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Mon, May 23 2011, 4:13 pm
| Liba wrote: | | JAWSCIENCE wrote: | | Liba wrote: | I am just stuck on this, how are you getting 5+ (two parents, three school age children, plus possible children not yet in school?) plane tickets to E"Y for $4000? Tickets are hard to find that cheap, and summer tickets are usually so expensive.
What happens if tickets are $6 or even $8,000? |
It's not just 1500, it's also the amount of money should we pay for a camp. She is saying 1500 because she would spend the camp money anyway. I am inclined to agree with barbara about the camp issue though.
Also as a dan lekaf zechus measure for those angrily eyeing neighbors taking trips while the school is hurting - we are going to Israel this summer as a family with my in laws for a total of 7 adults. We paid nothing for the flights. We got ridiculous mileage deals through hours of labor on finding good mileage earning deals and got all the tickets for free with miles. My husband is a mileage genius. And if you stay by your Israeli relatives that means the trip could be less expensive than someone else's local vacation. This sort of thing is rare but it DOES happen. |
I didn't ask how she was getting five+ tickets for $1,500, I asked how she was getting 5+ tickets for $4,000. We got an awesome deal, and are flying from E"Y to the US is cheaper than the US to E"Y and it was still almost $1,000 per ticket. |
maybe they live in europe?
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amother
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Mon, May 23 2011, 4:36 pm
| Raisin wrote: | | Liba wrote: | | JAWSCIENCE wrote: | | Liba wrote: | I am just stuck on this, how are you getting 5+ (two parents, three school age children, plus possible children not yet in school?) plane tickets to E"Y for $4000? Tickets are hard to find that cheap, and summer tickets are usually so expensive.
What happens if tickets are $6 or even $8,000? |
It's not just 1500, it's also the amount of money should we pay for a camp. She is saying 1500 because she would spend the camp money anyway. I am inclined to agree with barbara about the camp issue though.
Also as a dan lekaf zechus measure for those angrily eyeing neighbors taking trips while the school is hurting - we are going to Israel this summer as a family with my in laws for a total of 7 adults. We paid nothing for the flights. We got ridiculous mileage deals through hours of labor on finding good mileage earning deals and got all the tickets for free with miles. My husband is a mileage genius. And if you stay by your Israeli relatives that means the trip could be less expensive than someone else's local vacation. This sort of thing is rare but it DOES happen. |
I didn't ask how she was getting five+ tickets for $1,500, I asked how she was getting 5+ tickets for $4,000. We got an awesome deal, and are flying from E"Y to the US is cheaper than the US to E"Y and it was still almost $1,000 per ticket. |
maybe they live in europe? |
no no no, my in-laws are covering the entire cost of the tickets and yes they were insanely expensive. We are coming up with the money for our expenses there like food, car rental. activities/trips. We came up with $4000 but it may very possibly cost us less. We are staying with family the entire time. While I do agree with Barbara that camp is a luxury, my children would not do well staying home all summer. And any activities or trips I take them on here would end up costing me as much or probably more.
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Liba
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Mon, May 23 2011, 5:02 pm
| amother wrote: |
no no no, my in-laws are covering the entire cost of the tickets and yes they were insanely expensive. We are coming up with the money for our expenses there like food, car rental. activities/trips. We came up with $4000 but it may very possibly cost us less. We are staying with family the entire time. While I do agree with Barbara that camp is a luxury, my children would not do well staying home all summer. And any activities or trips I take them on here would end up costing me as much or probably more. |
So tell that to the tuition committee, go and enjoy! If you aren't paying for the airfare and are staying by family I don't see why this is a big deal at all.
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