Tuition Dilemma | Imamother

amother

Tue, May 24 2011, 1:12 pm

JAWSCIENCE wrote:

amother wrote:

how many miles generally translate into a r/t ticket to israel?

depends on hte airline. AA is about 90,000. Continental is about 75,000

amother wrote:

also is this a one time thing? do you cancel the credit card after getting the miles- because it seems that most charge a fee (even for the first year), and it doesn't really pay unless you get that big bonus of miles in the beginning?

Every single card I signed up for waived the fee for the first year. In fact I found that to be the norm on the better deals. So you can cancel after one year and never pay a fee. However, when you call to cancel they will often waive the fee again so there's no need to cancel for another year. Or many will let you downgrade your card to a card that has no fee. Having a card open for a long time actually improves your credit so I tend to downgrade. This is a complicated issue that is really too much for this thread. I have posted about your credit cards as relates to credit score on my blog.

amother wrote:

it still seems that you have to pay a lot even after the bonus miles for opening a card. for example, even if you get 100,000 miles to open up a card, and you need about 80-90,000 to buy one round trip ticket to israel. and from one of my current cards you get about 1 mile per dollar you spend, you need to spend another few hundred thousand to get a few plane tickets. When you say you spend all your bills, do you really need to spend $200,000-300,000 to get it? do people really have bills that big?

If you get 100,000 for the card, then you have gotten enough for one round trip ticket for free. We each opened one card so we each got enough miles for our ticket to be free. We were dealing with adults here so each person was able to open their own card and that equaled their own round trip ticket plus some mileage leftover. Therefore I am not seeing why you think we needed to spend another 200K. We pooled the extra mileage left over from the individual cards to get a ticket or two for some kids.

The miles per dollar thing is never the best way to get a huge chunk of miles at once. What we paid on our bills was not for the miles per dollar. It was for the minimum amount you must spend to get the sign on bonus. Usually round 10,000. We have a lot of relatives paying full tuition for several kids. Their schools allow payment by cc. You better believe a person with several kids in a Yeshiva has bills of at least 10,000. As a family trip everyone was in this together.

amother wrote:

can you recommend credit cards that you've used that have given good mileage?

Depends on what you are asking. If you would like t know what cards give good mileage for dollars spent or good cash back for dollars spent I have posted on my blog about that. If you want to know about huge chunks of miles on opening a card most of the deals we used have expired by now but they keep coming back in various forms. It is kind of complicated and you to invest the time to search. I can post it as I do it on my blog but it is not something for this thread.

amother wrote:

also, if you want to do this again, say in a year from now, is it possible?

It depends on which cards you used this year and how good you were about it. I doubt you can do it every year because the deals are not always there and you cannot be opening and closing cards all the time. it makes credit issuers very suspicious of you. Your ability to do this also depends on your stage in life. If you are about to apply for a mortgage you don't want to increase your credit line by taking out two new cards. Many people only have rudimentary understanding about credit score (I cannot count the amount of people I know who don't want to open a cc because they think it is bad for their credit score. Instead they have a terrible credit score because they have no credit history, never having had a single cc or loan or line of credit in their lives. They get slammed when they go for a mortgage.). Therefore for most people I would not recommend doing this every year. Nor do I think it is normal to think you have to go to Israel every year. It is for a really special occasion so we all worked hard to make it affordable for the family members who needed assistance. But in general such high expectations for a trip every year is not good for a family. You'd do better selling your mileage and saving the cash in a Roth IRA.

amother wrote:

and, if the miles are all on your name- from your credit card- how do you transfer it to family members, to buy them tickets as well?
thanks

If the miles are in my name I call up and say I want to book a ticket for person x. You can use your miles to book tickets for other people. You do not want to be transferring miles if avoidable. They take a huge cut when they do that.

thanks for taking the time to answer all my questions!
(one more: you mentioned your blog--what's the web site?)

amother

Tue, May 24 2011, 1:12 pm

Hashem_Yaazor wrote:

I'll have you know that according to many school administrators, full tuition is enough for ONE child. The tuition is not raised higher to pay for others on scholarship.
That's where the fundraising comes in.

and according to many others it's not. "Full" tuition is used to subsidize scholarships, there is just no way to raise the amount of money needed otherwise.

Hashem_Yaazor

Tue, May 24 2011, 1:24 pm

It definitely can vary by school and their expenses but this is from various mechanchim from across the entire United States. They have to do massive fundraising for the scholarships, but a full $9000 tuition covers the expenses of one kid.
It could be a $20K tuition is inflated because of others who need financial assistance, but I have yet to meet one person who works in the schools and/or on tuition committees to tell me such or state that as fact in a different medium (some of this is from articles/letters regarding the tuition crisis.)

I give more credence to those who know the finances of the school than to parents frustrated with the high cost of tuition (of which I am one Wink

)

amother

Tue, May 24 2011, 1:28 pm

Hashem_Yaazor wrote:

)

I spoke to my school administrator who acknowledged that a portion of my kid's tuition was subsidizing other children but of course could not give me an exact figure since it's not an exact science, blah, blah, blah

oh and $9K? I wish!

JAWSCIENCE

Tue, May 24 2011, 1:39 pm

Hashem_Yaazor wrote:

I was under this impression as well which I why I said people should be very careful to get a straight answer before just saying "Oh I am just not paying for another kid this year". It is very expensive to educate a child.

JAWSCIENCE

Tue, May 24 2011, 1:40 pm

amother wrote:

JAWSCIENCE wrote:

amother wrote:

how many miles generally translate into a r/t ticket to israel?

depends on hte airline. AA is about 90,000. Continental is about 75,000

amother wrote:

can you recommend credit cards that you've used that have given good mileage?

amother wrote:

also, if you want to do this again, say in a year from now, is it possible?

amother wrote:

and, if the miles are all on your name- from your credit card- how do you transfer it to family members, to buy them tickets as well?
thanks

thanks for taking the time to answer all my questions!
(one more: you mentioned your blog--what's the web site?)

No problem, I just felt bad for hijacking the thread. My blog link is in my signature. http://budgetandbargain.blogspot.com/

I have not posted in a couple weeks but am planning two to three posts today. Had a busy work week last week and am trying to get back on track.

chocolate moose

Tue, May 24 2011, 3:40 pm

I don't get it. If you pay the tuition they request, why can't you do as you please with your discetionary income ?

Liba

Tue, May 24 2011, 3:46 pm

My understanding was that they are paying the tuition required of her without telling the tuition committee of the savings that they will be using for the trip.

Their rav said that they didn't have to disclose the $50,000 in savings to the scholarship committee. If she can use it for a trip, maybe it should be considered available and be there to help pay for tuition as well.

farm

Tue, May 24 2011, 3:48 pm

chocolate moose wrote:

I don't get it. If you pay the tuition they request, why can't you do as you please with your discetionary income ?

She is not paying the tuition they request, she is paying a discounted rate she requested.

Barbara

Tue, May 24 2011, 3:48 pm

chocolate moose wrote:

I don't get it. If you pay the tuition they request, why can't you do as you please with your discetionary income ?

If you pay full tuition, of course.

The debate is about the morality of requesting tuition assistance -- ie, telling the school that you cannot pay full tuition, and that your child(ren) should therefore be given scholarship assistance -- while at the same time having substantial discretionary income to spend on non-essentials. Eg, school for 3 children costs $40,000. The Cohens claim that they cannot afford that, and request tuition assistance. The Scholarship Committee, reviewing information provided, offers a $10,000 total scholarship, so the Cohens pay $30,000. The Cohens then spend Pesach at a fancy hotel, that cost $6000, and take a 3-week trip to Israel at a cost of $12,000. Well, as the Cohens apparently had $18,000 in disposable income to pay for those luxuries, clearly they could have paid full tuition. Why were they entitled to tzedaka?

Barbara

Tue, May 24 2011, 3:52 pm

Liba wrote:

I don't think the Rav told them that they don't have to disclose the savings. That would be lying. The Rav said that they were permitted to request tuition assistance while at the same time putting away a very modest sum in savings. IMNSHO, it would be silly for a Rav, or a tuition committee, to require otherwise. People need a cushion for emergencies. I suspect that the Rav would have told them not to request assistance if the savings were $500,000, not $50,000.

Raisin

Tue, May 24 2011, 4:06 pm

how depressing. it is a fraction of the price to fly to israel from here and it is still only a dream

Liba

Tue, May 24 2011, 4:12 pm

I have met with some pretty crazy tuition committees. B"H or we might have forgotten how much we wanted to make aliya.

Peanut2

Tue, May 24 2011, 4:26 pm

JAWSCIENCE wrote:

Hashem_Yaazor wrote:

This kind of information should be available for parents. In my personal experience, the board of the school provides this information. And everywhere I've seen it it always says that it costs, say $14,300 to educate a child at school X, and tuition is $12,600. That is, in the schools I'm familiar with, full tuition does not cover the full cost per student.

Tamiri

Tue, May 24 2011, 4:31 pm

happymom4 wrote:

Tamiri & Jawscience...happy to all think the same on this topic...if only we could do something about it Very Happy

I did... I made Aliya. No more tuition committees. EVERYONE pays in full unless they meet specific criteria. It's not a *rapshoot. Then again, tuition levels are a bit more reasonable in Israel.

amother

Tue, May 24 2011, 9:06 pm

chocolate moose wrote:

I don't get it. If you pay the tuition they request, why can't you do as you please with your discetionary income ?

When someone requests a scholarship they are saying they do not have the funds to pay full tuition. If they have extra money to spend on a trip, it might rightfully need to go to the yeshiva.
Scary stuff. If the money doesn't really belong to them and they use it... I can't imagine how, after 120 the trip will be worth it. Ask your Rav again giving all the details.

LisaS

Wed, May 25 2011, 8:08 am

I am following this thread with interest. My parents worked hard to meet the "give or get" requirements of our schools for many years. Now I live in Israel so it isn't relevant to us.

To all the mothers who are working to pay full tuition - I hope you are very proud of what you are doing. One day your children will be proud of you too when they understand.

chocolate moose

Wed, May 25 2011, 10:48 am

Even with paying full tuition, it doesn't cover all the costs of educating a child.

I'm pretty sure we learned that the tuition they request is considered full tuition for you.

rydys

Wed, May 25 2011, 10:55 am

I'm curious. Does anyone know how much it really costs per child to run a school?

Thinking about elementary school--If the hebrew and english teachers are each paid $30,000 for the year, that I $60,000. What other expenses are involved? Could it really cost more than $120,000 to run a classroom?

I'm curious for a reason. I pay $4000 a year for my kids. With 30 girls in the class, that is $120,000 per year (assuming everyone pays full tuition, I have never asked for a discount). This seems to me like plenty of money.

I know not everyone pays in full, but assuming they did, shouldn't that be enough? And if you can't afford to pay in full, would it not be fair to expect to contribute some other way, like supervising lunch or stuffing envelopes or something which would lower the other costs in the classroom?

Barbara

Wed, May 25 2011, 11:38 am

rydys wrote:

I can only speak to our schools.

In the lower grades, there are always 2 teachers, lead and assistant. So for 20 kids (our class size; do you really have more kids in a class in private school than in public school?), that's 4 teachers. The lead teachers certainly make more than $30,000 per year. (College graduates with teaching degrees and some experience really accept $700 per week, assuming a 42 week year? The starting salary for a NYC public school teacher is about $45,000 per year; 5 years experience, even with just a BA, is over $50,000. How do schools that pay 1/2 that attract good teachers?)

Add benefits (health insurance) and payroll taxes, which runs the per employee cost up to 1.25 to 1.4 times the actual salary. IOW, even if you have 2 teachers making $30,000 each, as you claim, its still costing the school $85,000 to pay them.

Then there are support staff. Substitute teachers (and you tend to need a lot in frum schools, where there is frequent maternity leave). Resource room teachers. Enrichment teachers. Administrative and other support staff. Security. Lunchroom personnel. Janitorial staff. Book keeper, accountant, and other office staff. Gym, art, music, other specialties.

Cost of the building. Heat and a/c. Lunch (if provided). Repairs. Electricity. Desks and chairs. Insurance. Maintaining the grounds and playground.

Books. Smartboards or blackboards. Lots and lots and lots of paper. Postage, unless your school is paper-free.

I'm sure I've missed a lot of things.

So schools have a LOT of expenses beyond salary.