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-> Household Management
-> Cleaning & Laundry
amother
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 Mon, Jun 13 2011, 8:38 am
I don't know......it would be very interesting to me that you should be allowed on shabbos. For goodness sake, you can't wait another hour or so after shabbos to hang laundry? What else is it gonna come to? Are we gonna start "baking" cakes and "driving" cars, on shabbos?!?! You can fill the mixer with the ingredients before shabbos, set it on a timer to go on, on shabbos, and stick it in the oven while the oven is on anyway!!  can't we people have a little patience?! Can't we just keep as much tradition as we can?! Right we have more now, but why do we always have to look for more hiddurim?! If we start washing our clothes on shabbos, what are our kids gonna start doing?!
Btw, don't remember which amother it was. But my very frum chassidish mother, who is always learning hilchos shabbos, and listening to hilchos shabbos lectures, Always "knew" you're not allowed to separate the dishes in the dishwasher on shabbos, and was very shocked to hear that you ARE allowed. I wish I remember the name of the speaker.
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RachelEve14
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Mon, Jun 13 2011, 11:13 am
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About the dishes, I was told you are allowed to put them in correctly (ie: you don't have to just dump them in), but not to davka stack them exactly. I don't stack dishes in my sink, so for me to go pick out all the knives, all the forks, all the big plates, etc would not be allowed. But for me to put the dishes in the slots is fine, even if I don't rearrange them after Shabbot (I do need to becaus the plastic stuff needs to be in specific places and I always wind up loading the dishwasher at least 2x even on weekdays).
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chocolate moose
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Mon, Jun 13 2011, 11:42 am
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You might come to stir or check on a pot, whether it's on the fire, a blech, or a plata. It's not self contained, like a crockpot.
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Besiyata Dishmaya
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Tue, Jun 14 2011, 5:35 am
Although it would never occur to me to have my washing machine wash laundry or dishes on Shabbos, it's an interesting question. While making noise and maaros ayin could also be a reason, but if I live in a bungalow alone and there's no one around, nobody would hear it. I would assume the answer is #3, preparing for after Shabbos and not pikuach nefesh like an air-condition.
| shalhevet wrote: | | Tamiri wrote: | | Bediavad, if you have stuff in a machine that's running when Shabbat arrives, that's one thing. |
See my post after yours, that that is also assur - obviously, if you forgot to turn it off, you forgot. But you should turn it off before Shabbat (applies more to a drier if you have any sense, and don't want a smelly mouldy load on Motzai Shabbos). |
I'm wondering about that. Wouldn't it be the same as hanging up wet clothes before the zman? I've seen people doing it.
| RachelEve14 wrote: | | About the dishes, I was told you are allowed to put them in correctly (ie: you don't have to just dump them in), but not to davka stack them exactly. I don't stack dishes in my sink, so for me to go pick out all the knives, all the forks, all the big plates, etc would not be allowed. But for me to put the dishes in the slots is fine, even if I don't rearrange them after Shabbot (I do need to becaus the plastic stuff needs to be in specific places and I always wind up loading the dishwasher at least 2x even on weekdays). |
I was told that you're not allowed to put the dishes in correctly, like you're not allowed to fold the talis correctly.
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shalhevet
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Tue, Jun 14 2011, 5:53 am
| Besiyata Dishmaya wrote: | Although it would never occur to me to have my washing machine wash laundry or dishes on Shabbos, it's an interesting question. While making noise and maaros ayin could also be a reason, but if I live in a bungalow alone and there's no one around, nobody would hear it. I would assume the answer is #3, preparing for after Shabbos and not pikuach nefesh like an air-condition.
| shalhevet wrote: | | Tamiri wrote: | | Bediavad, if you have stuff in a machine that's running when Shabbat arrives, that's one thing. |
See my post after yours, that that is also assur - obviously, if you forgot to turn it off, you forgot. But you should turn it off before Shabbat (applies more to a drier if you have any sense, and don't want a smelly mouldy load on Motzai Shabbos). |
I'm wondering about that. Wouldn't it be the same as hanging up wet clothes before the zman? I've seen people doing it.
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Wet clothes on the line make a noise when drying? 
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Besiyata Dishmaya
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Tue, Jun 14 2011, 7:23 am
| shalhevet wrote: | | Besiyata Dishmaya wrote: | Although it would never occur to me to have my washing machine wash laundry or dishes on Shabbos, it's an interesting question. While making noise and maaros ayin could also be a reason, but if I live in a bungalow alone and there's no one around, nobody would hear it. I would assume the answer is #3, preparing for after Shabbos and not pikuach nefesh like an air-condition.
| shalhevet wrote: | | Tamiri wrote: | | Bediavad, if you have stuff in a machine that's running when Shabbat arrives, that's one thing. |
See my post after yours, that that is also assur - obviously, if you forgot to turn it off, you forgot. But you should turn it off before Shabbat (applies more to a drier if you have any sense, and don't want a smelly mouldy load on Motzai Shabbos). |
I'm wondering about that. Wouldn't it be the same as hanging up wet clothes before the zman? I've seen people doing it. |
Wet clothes on the line make a noise when drying? |
If the dryer or washing machine or dishwasher don't make noise, are they permitted? If the reason of the noise is because of maaris ayin, aren't clothes hanging to dry maaris ayin too?
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Liba
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Tue, Jun 14 2011, 7:50 am
We run lots of things in our house that make noise on Shabbos.
I have never turned off the drier before Shabbos and don't plan on doing it. I was told that if it was on before Shabbos it was fine to leave it.
We were told that clothing drying inside was fine, outside was an issue. Our drier is inside and pretty quiet.
It is a lot quieter than the other equipment which is often running any which way.
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shalhevet
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Tue, Jun 14 2011, 8:14 am
| Besiyata Dishmaya wrote: | | shalhevet wrote: | | Besiyata Dishmaya wrote: | Although it would never occur to me to have my washing machine wash laundry or dishes on Shabbos, it's an interesting question. While making noise and maaros ayin could also be a reason, but if I live in a bungalow alone and there's no one around, nobody would hear it. I would assume the answer is #3, preparing for after Shabbos and not pikuach nefesh like an air-condition.
| shalhevet wrote: | | Tamiri wrote: | | Bediavad, if you have stuff in a machine that's running when Shabbat arrives, that's one thing. |
See my post after yours, that that is also assur - obviously, if you forgot to turn it off, you forgot. But you should turn it off before Shabbat (applies more to a drier if you have any sense, and don't want a smelly mouldy load on Motzai Shabbos). |
I'm wondering about that. Wouldn't it be the same as hanging up wet clothes before the zman? I've seen people doing it. |
Wet clothes on the line make a noise when drying? |
If the dryer or washing machine or dishwasher don't make noise, are they permitted? |
I don't know - we are talking here only about one running from before Shabbat. I heard the problem is the noise of a machine running.
| Quote: | | If the reason of the noise is because of maaris ayin, aren't clothes hanging to dry maaris ayin too? |
Since there is no issur of leaving wet (or dry) clothes hanging outside (only of hanging them up) there can't be maris ayin, since it isn't assur to do it in the first place.
Liba, either your rav holds differently, or you got a different psak because of your personal circumstances. It is also nothing to do with whether you can/ can't hear the machine, or have something louder running - it's irrelevant to the psak if you have, say, noisy A/C running.
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Besiyata Dishmaya
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Wed, Jun 15 2011, 4:41 am
| shalhevet wrote: | | Besiyata Dishmaya wrote: | | If the dryer or washing machine or dishwasher don't make noise, are they permitted? |
I don't know - we are talking here only about one running from before Shabbat. I heard the problem is the noise of a machine running. |
The discussion lechatchilah was setting a Shabbos timer but it doesn't matter. I'm not sure you're correct that you have to shut the machine if it started before Shabbos. Do you have a source? I can't believe the problem is only because it makes noise. What's the problem with the noise? If there's no one living near you or if my washer or dryer have a silencer, would that be ok? I mean, it doesn't make sense that this should be the reason for not washing on Shabbos.
| Quote: | | Quote: | | If the reason of the noise is because of maaris ayin, aren't clothes hanging to dry maaris ayin too? |
Since there is no issur of leaving wet (or dry) clothes hanging outside (only of hanging them up) there can't be maris ayin, since it isn't assur to do it in the first place. |
So you're allowed to hang it to dry a minute before Shabbos so that it should dry on Shabbos?
| RachelEve14 wrote: | | So I first thought about this a couple of weeks ago, and then we went to a friend on Shabbot who does it (but didn't ask a p'sak, assumed it was fine). I'm not going to ask my Rav because our machine doesn't have this feature, but I"m curious if anyone else has asked a Rav about it. My gut says you can't because: |
Why? A Shabbos timer can be attached to any machine.
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shalhevet
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Wed, Jun 15 2011, 4:54 am
| Besiyata Dishmaya wrote: | | shalhevet wrote: | | Besiyata Dishmaya wrote: | | If the dryer or washing machine or dishwasher don't make noise, are they permitted? |
I don't know - we are talking here only about one running from before Shabbat. I heard the problem is the noise of a machine running. |
The discussion lechatchilah was setting a Shabbos timer but it doesn't matter. I'm not sure you're correct that you have to shut the machine if it started before Shabbos. Do you have a source? I can't believe the problem is only because it makes noise. What's the problem with the noise? If there's no one living near you or if my washer or dryer have a silencer, would that be ok? I mean, it doesn't make sense that this should be the reason for not washing on Shabbos. |
My source is my dh - I think it's uvda d'chol but not sure. Why aren't you allowed to leave a radio on you turned on before Shabbos - today with an MP3 disk you could have music all of Shabbos (you can't).
| Quote: | | Quote: | | Quote: | | If the reason of the noise is because of maaris ayin, aren't clothes hanging to dry maaris ayin too? |
Since there is no issur of leaving wet (or dry) clothes hanging outside (only of hanging them up) there can't be maris ayin, since it isn't assur to do it in the first place. |
So you're allowed to hang it to dry a minute before Shabbos so that it should dry on Shabbos? |
Sure you are allowed to. But clothes which were wet bein hashemashos are muktza all of Shabbos, even once they are dry. But I think there might be exceptions for great need.
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Besiyata Dishmaya
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Wed, Jun 15 2011, 5:03 am
| shalhevet wrote: | | Besiyata Dishmaya wrote: | | shalhevet wrote: | | Besiyata Dishmaya wrote: | | If the dryer or washing machine or dishwasher don't make noise, are they permitted? |
I don't know - we are talking here only about one running from before Shabbat. I heard the problem is the noise of a machine running. |
The discussion lechatchilah was setting a Shabbos timer but it doesn't matter. I'm not sure you're correct that you have to shut the machine if it started before Shabbos. Do you have a source? I can't believe the problem is only because it makes noise. What's the problem with the noise? If there's no one living near you or if my washer or dryer have a silencer, would that be ok? I mean, it doesn't make sense that this should be the reason for not washing on Shabbos. |
My source is my dh - I think it's uvda d'chol but not sure. Why aren't you allowed to leave a radio on you turned on before Shabbos - today with an MP3 disk you could have music all of Shabbos (you can't). |
"uvda d'chol" has nothing to do with noise, just like you can't ride a bike on Shabbos.
| Quote: | | Quote: | | Quote: | | Quote: | | If the reason of the noise is because of maaris ayin, aren't clothes hanging to dry maaris ayin too? |
Since there is no issur of leaving wet (or dry) clothes hanging outside (only of hanging them up) there can't be maris ayin, since it isn't assur to do it in the first place. |
So you're allowed to hang it to dry a minute before Shabbos so that it should dry on Shabbos? |
Sure you are allowed to. But clothes which were wet bein hashemashos are muktza all of Shabbos, even once they are dry. But I think there might be exceptions for great need. |
Interesting. I'll ask my husband about it in the evening.
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Raisin
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Wed, Jun 15 2011, 5:27 am
| shalhevet wrote: | | Besiyata Dishmaya wrote: | | shalhevet wrote: | | Besiyata Dishmaya wrote: | | If the dryer or washing machine or dishwasher don't make noise, are they permitted? |
I don't know - we are talking here only about one running from before Shabbat. I heard the problem is the noise of a machine running. |
The discussion lechatchilah was setting a Shabbos timer but it doesn't matter. I'm not sure you're correct that you have to shut the machine if it started before Shabbos. Do you have a source? I can't believe the problem is only because it makes noise. What's the problem with the noise? If there's no one living near you or if my washer or dryer have a silencer, would that be ok? I mean, it doesn't make sense that this should be the reason for not washing on Shabbos. |
My source is my dh - I think it's uvda d'chol but not sure. Why aren't you allowed to leave a radio on you turned on before Shabbos - today with an MP3 disk you could have music all of Shabbos (you can't).
| Quote: | | Quote: | | Quote: | | If the reason of the noise is because of maaris ayin, aren't clothes hanging to dry maaris ayin too? |
Since there is no issur of leaving wet (or dry) clothes hanging outside (only of hanging them up) there can't be maris ayin, since it isn't assur to do it in the first place. |
So you're allowed to hang it to dry a minute before Shabbos so that it should dry on Shabbos? |
Sure you are allowed to. But clothes which were wet bein hashemashos are muktza all of Shabbos, even once they are dry. But I think there might be exceptions for great need. |
there are people who leave tvs on on shabbos, but I am not sure if they do this with halachic approval.
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shalhevet
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Wed, Jun 15 2011, 5:32 am
| Raisin wrote: | | shalhevet wrote: | | Besiyata Dishmaya wrote: | | shalhevet wrote: | | Besiyata Dishmaya wrote: | | If the dryer or washing machine or dishwasher don't make noise, are they permitted? |
I don't know - we are talking here only about one running from before Shabbat. I heard the problem is the noise of a machine running. |
The discussion lechatchilah was setting a Shabbos timer but it doesn't matter. I'm not sure you're correct that you have to shut the machine if it started before Shabbos. Do you have a source? I can't believe the problem is only because it makes noise. What's the problem with the noise? If there's no one living near you or if my washer or dryer have a silencer, would that be ok? I mean, it doesn't make sense that this should be the reason for not washing on Shabbos. |
My source is my dh - I think it's uvda d'chol but not sure. Why aren't you allowed to leave a radio on you turned on before Shabbos - today with an MP3 disk you could have music all of Shabbos (you can't).
| Quote: | | Quote: | | Quote: | | If the reason of the noise is because of maaris ayin, aren't clothes hanging to dry maaris ayin too? |
Since there is no issur of leaving wet (or dry) clothes hanging outside (only of hanging them up) there can't be maris ayin, since it isn't assur to do it in the first place. |
So you're allowed to hang it to dry a minute before Shabbos so that it should dry on Shabbos? |
Sure you are allowed to. But clothes which were wet bein hashemashos are muktza all of Shabbos, even once they are dry. But I think there might be exceptions for great need. |
there are people who leave tvs on on shabbos, but I am not sure if they do this with halachic approval. |
I'm not sure those who leave tvs on during the week do so with halachic approval either 
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RachelEve14
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Wed, Jun 15 2011, 5:34 am
| Besiyata Dishmaya wrote: | | "uvda d'chol" has nothing to do with noise, just like you can't ride a bike on Shabbos. |
I learned the reason you can't ride a bike on Shabbos is that if it would break down it would be muksa and people would be tempted to move or fix it on Shabbot. Not to mention the eruv problem in most places.
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RachelEve14
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Wed, Jun 15 2011, 5:34 am
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I think the tsuva we learned had something specifically to do with the chain on the bike snapping.
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Besiyata Dishmaya
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Wed, Jun 15 2011, 5:42 am
| RachelEve14 wrote: | | Besiyata Dishmaya wrote: | | "uvda d'chol" has nothing to do with noise, just like you can't ride a bike on Shabbos. |
I learned the reason you can't ride a bike on Shabbos is that if it would break down it would be muksa and people would be tempted to move or fix it on Shabbot. Not to mention the eruv problem in most places. |
If that would be the reason, people wouldn't push carriages on Shabbos AND YomTov. (There is indeed a very small minority who don't push a carriage on Shabbos and YomTov for exactly this reason - like Dushinsky chassidim. But most people worldwide do and yet they don't ride bikes. Of course we're only talking about with an eiruv on Shabbos.)
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Marion
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Wed, Jun 15 2011, 5:47 am
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Except that the chances of a stroller breaking on Shabbat/YT are lower than those of a chain breaking/falling off on a bike.
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Liba
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Wed, Jun 15 2011, 5:47 am
BD it is the reason. If your carriage had a chain that was known to fall of and need fixing you wouldn't be allowed to push it on Shabbos either. 
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DrMom
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Wed, Jun 15 2011, 5:50 am
| Besiyata Dishmaya wrote: | | RachelEve14 wrote: | | Besiyata Dishmaya wrote: | | "uvda d'chol" has nothing to do with noise, just like you can't ride a bike on Shabbos. |
I learned the reason you can't ride a bike on Shabbos is that if it would break down it would be muksa and people would be tempted to move or fix it on Shabbot. Not to mention the eruv problem in most places. |
If that would be the reason, people wouldn't push carriages on Shabbos AND YomTov. (There is indeed a very small minority who don't push a carriage on Shabbos and YomTov for exactly this reason - like Dushinsky chassidim. But most people worldwide do and yet they don't ride bikes. Of course we're only talking about with an eiruv on Shabbos.) |
I learned as RachelEve did. I was taught that it is because of the high liklihood of the chain breaking.
I thought it was odd, since other things that are okay to use can also break, but I have learned that halacha is not always consistent. 
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Hashem_Yaazor
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Wed, Jun 15 2011, 8:55 am
| shalhevet wrote: | | Besiyata Dishmaya wrote: | | shalhevet wrote: | | Besiyata Dishmaya wrote: | | If the dryer or washing machine or dishwasher don't make noise, are they permitted? |
I don't know - we are talking here only about one running from before Shabbat. I heard the problem is the noise of a machine running. |
The discussion lechatchilah was setting a Shabbos timer but it doesn't matter. I'm not sure you're correct that you have to shut the machine if it started before Shabbos. Do you have a source? I can't believe the problem is only because it makes noise. What's the problem with the noise? If there's no one living near you or if my washer or dryer have a silencer, would that be ok? I mean, it doesn't make sense that this should be the reason for not washing on Shabbos. |
My source is my dh - I think it's uvda d'chol but not sure. |
Yes. I've been waiting for someone to say that.
That's exactly how I learned.
Same with a vaccuum or any other noisy appliance.
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