THE POPE - AND WHAT WE CAN LEARN

AweSumThenSum

Fri, Apr 01 2005, 1:17 pm

I was wrong in my prediction that the pope would die on the same day as terri schiavo, but I was right in my predicition that he wouldn't die much after she did. my reasoning is that the timing of the pope's rapid failure is very poignant and is meant to teach the world a lesson. terri suffered while in a state of unawareness, and her life was not valued at all by those who eventually killed her. the pope is suffering for a long time, while totally aware of his pain and aware that his death is imminent, and yet he is doing everything in his power to remain alive. his grip on life is tenacious, and he is showing the world "LOOK!!! Compare and contrast my situation w/ Terri's, and learn from me how to behave in death, and learn from Terri's situation how NOT to behave!!"
Your thoughts and comments...................................

Leagal Eagal

Fri, Apr 01 2005, 1:21 pm

I agree. I think the Pope's situation is a very good example for other people to see, that life is valuable, even if the quality of life is not very good.
He did a lot of good, if only by being a unifying and electrifying force for his followers, and by keeping some of them more moral than they would have otherwise been.
I hear that the person most likely to succeed him is actually a Jew by the name of Lustiger.

avigayil

Fri, Apr 01 2005, 1:27 pm

It is still sad that an innocent woman can still be starved to death in the country with the most abundance.
As for the Pope, I admire his detirmination to get the most out of each minute of the time he has left as well as his courage in realizing this.
I wonder though, was he really good for us?

When Ronald Reagan died, it was said that the 2 met in the early 80's and belived they survived their assasinations because they had a G-d given mission (in their elected role) to help defeat communisim. Interesting.

Leagal Eagal

Fri, Apr 01 2005, 1:33 pm

I just want to add that Hakadosh Baruch Hu should help that there is no repercussions against the Jewish people once the Pope does die. History has shown that every time there is unrest among the religious non-Jews, it always ends up negatively affecting the Jews. Hakadosh Baruch Hu should really help that all remains quiet.

ahuvah

Sat, Apr 02 2005, 7:29 pm

I think the Pope did his best to make amends to all Jews for any and all wrongs done in the past. I do not think his followers will forget that he speaks for G-d.
He not only talked the talk but he walked the walk.

Rivka

Sat, Apr 02 2005, 8:12 pm

Actually the Pope was a priest during the 2nd WW and he saved lots of Jewish children and didn't allow them to be baptized. So that says alot. It was one thing for them to save the kids but often they would baptise them into christians and he did not do that. I think he was a good pope and a good person. I just wonder who will succeed him.
As for repurcussions, I don't think there will be any on the Jews, Christianity isn't what it used to be.

Motek

Sat, Apr 02 2005, 8:43 pm

Quote:

Since their historic first handshake in 1982, Yasser Arafat had a precious ally in Pope John Paul II who has always championed the "natural right" of the Palestinian people to a state.

He found a willing ear at the Vatican from the first pope in history to cross the threshold of a mosque and enter a synagogue.

While the pontiff has strived to maintain a delicate balance in his pronouncements on the Middle East, he has never been afraid of upsetting the Israelis by welcoming Arafat, whom Israel saw as a terrorist.

The welcome mat at the Vatican was rolled out for Arafat 11 times, while Arafat also met John Paul II during a papal visit to the Holy Land in 2000.

Their first meeting was in September 1982, when the Palestine Liberation Organisation (PLO) leader was neither a Nobel Peace Prize laureate nor a president. Things were heating up in the Middle East. Israel had invaded Lebanon a few months before, and Arafat needed a high-profile ally.

At the time, then Italian prime minister Giovanni Spadolini refused to greet Arafat, but the pope "had no difficulty at all", recalled another former prime minister Giulio Andreotti last week, when the Palestinian leader was on his death bed in Paris.

Arafat, who cannily announced to the pope that he was the second Palestinian leader to enter the Vatican -- after Saint Peter -- remembered the papal welcome as particularly warm.

"They told me I only had five minutes. After seven minutes, a cardinal came in to say that the time was up, but the pope asked him to leave. Our meeting lasted nearly an hour," the Palestinian leader recalled later.

The Holy See followed up that meeting with a statement underlining the "right of the Palestinian people to a state and the right of Israel to security".

In Israel, then prime minister Menachem Begin railed against Arafat's high-profile meeting with the head of the Roman Catholic Church, saying his hands had been "stained with the blood of innocent Jewish children".

Almost two decades later, the pontiff visited Palestinian refugee camps in the West Bank during his visit to the Holy Land in March 2000.

"The Holy See has always recognized the natural right of the Palestinian people to a state, as well as its right to live in peace and tranquility with other people in the region," John Paul II said during his visit.

The last of their encounters at the Vatican took place in October 2001, after Arafat had asked to see the pope to advise him of "the worrying situation" in the Palestinian Occupied territories.

In 2003, the pontiff upset Israel with a strong condemnation of its West Bank security barrier, saying what the Middle East needed was bridges, not walls.

Vatican spokesman Joaquin Navarro-Valls summed up Arafat's contribution to Middle East peace on Thursday, saying he was "a leader of great charisma who loved his people and tried to guide them towards national independence".

hardwrknmom

Sat, Apr 02 2005, 10:36 pm

thanks for that article.. the pope was for the arabs...I don't think he was for the jews at all.. he was full of balloni when it came to the jews..

Sunshine

Sat, Apr 02 2005, 10:56 pm

The pope died tonight.

hardwrknmom

Sun, Apr 03 2005, 12:09 am

Sunshine wrote:

The pope died tonight.

we are talking about that..

hardwrknmom

Sun, Apr 03 2005, 12:11 am

check out the pope kissing the big terrorist (arafat) hand.

A picture says a million words.

In my opinion Catholics can't stand that Jews are around.

AweSumThenSum

Sun, Apr 03 2005, 8:12 am

I dont think he was for the arabs any more than the arabs think he was for the jews. the pope, imo, was an equal opportunity religious leader and he played the part very well.

Pickle Lady

Sun, Apr 03 2005, 9:46 am

I don't have a copy of the article I read but. It said that the pope concerning the hiding of jewish children during the war didn't allow them to go back to their jewish family after the war. Can you imagine the families of those kids. Totally made me cry. Supposedly the church said that since they now have more xtians they won't give them up.

chabadnick

Sun, Apr 03 2005, 9:55 am

I"YH, Moshiach should come right now and they should see the Emes....that their J**** was not the true Moshiach and that the Pope was wrong,,,,we should see Moshiach RIGHT NOW! and not have to worry about a POPES death!

BlumaG

Sun, Apr 03 2005, 11:16 am

my husband heard this in shul yesterday:
there was a jewish family in poland during WWII and when htey gave birth to a son they gave him to a polish family to protect during the war n said thery'll come back after, they never did
when the child was 10 yrs old they took him to b baptized n the preist asked y they ahd waited so long. they told the story n he asked them well wat did the parents say if they didnt return, they told him that they had said to contact their relatives in boston. the preist said I can not baptize this child then, contact his relatives. in this way a yiddishe neshama was saved.
the preist became the pope that just passed away. so there is good in every person

ahuvah

Sun, Apr 03 2005, 7:34 pm

Hardwkingmom
Where are your facts for the statement that catholics hate jews/ I was listening to a rabbi speak on the new Catholic catechism and its reference to the sanctity of the jews as G-ds chosen people
trhe Pope looked for the ways that Jews/Chrsistians and Muslims could agree.
Your statement is meant to divide/ Shame on you
we have enough division is this world

Motek

Sun, Apr 03 2005, 8:08 pm

shame on Jews who deny history and the butchery, maiming, forced conversions, blood libels, done to Jews by Christians, up to and including the previous Pope doing absolutely nothing to stop Jews from being murdered.

Hordes of Ukrainians, Poles, etc. gleefully murdered Jews, and turned them in to the authorities for bags of sugar, solely because they said we killed their god (or at least that was the excuse). When Spielberg filmed "Schindler's List," they encountered the same old hatred among the Poles. That the recently deceased Pope welcomed the murderer Arafat, says it all.

Says Rabbi Shimon bar Yochai: "halacha hi b'yadua, sh'Eisav sonei l'Yaakov"

ahuvah

Sun, Apr 03 2005, 8:33 pm

No one denies the past evils, but that is not the point. The point remains that this man, this Pope stood before the wailing wall and asked forgivenss. That too is history
He was a good man

Motek

Sun, Apr 03 2005, 8:42 pm

do you think that good men shake hands with and welcome murderers?

avigayil

Sun, Apr 03 2005, 10:08 pm

Do you hold the same with Neturi Karta ,Motek?

The Pope met with leaders all over the world. Don't discount the good he did in his life with all the evil done over the past 2000 years.