WWYD, I have been advised to send my son to public school

markmywords

Fri, Dec 23 2011, 9:27 am

My son has an auditory processing disorder. He is in a language program funded by the D of Ed. The class is mixed Jewish/frum and not Jewish. He is also 3. I've sat in on the class many times, and can tell you from what I see, at this age, there is no difference being with frm/Jewish or not Jewish. The kids are so little and innocent. Past 5 I would seriously hesitate. My son was in a regular playgroup last year and the Morah said he was totally lost. This year they are teaching him how to work with his issues. He's been crying. They don't send it home to mommy. They work on the issues. They have a therapist on staff to help, explore..... If you put your kid in yeshiva and they can't keep up, they could fall behind, and when they turn 5 you really might have no choice but to send them to PS. If you work on correcting his issues, and seriously supplement at home, you might find him happier and better equipped to handle yeshiva when the learning really begins.

the world's best mom

Fri, Dec 23 2011, 9:46 am

I have no idea what schools are available in Florida, but I can tell you what I went through in my area. My ds is 3 and was totally non-verbal. There was no question that he needed a special school, though hopefully just for a year or 2. After researching many options, and going on tours of many schools, I felt rather trapped. The only Jewish school that had small enough classes to meet his needs had no room for him. We went to look at many non-Jewish schools who had great programs, but I just couldn't picture my sweet, sensitive little boy in the type of environments that I saw there. Not that they were terrible, but I just felt that a lot of the teachers had a rather rough way of speaking to the children. I really didn't want to send him to any of those schools, but it didn't look like I would have a choice.

B"H, the Jewish school finally called me that a slot opened up for him. But if my choice would have been a non-Jewish school or a school that was not equipped to meet his needs, I would have chosen carefully from the non-Jewish schools. As long as the teachers seem gentle enough, I would not have such a big problem with it. I think it really depends on the specific classroom, the teachers, the level of the other students. (If the other kids are way below his level, then that would also be a problem.)

amother

Fri, Dec 23 2011, 9:57 am

I didn't read all the replies. I have a 6 yr old with moderate delays. He is about 2 yrs behind in all areas and has and will need therapy for yrs. There is a difference, however, between my child and yours. At age 3 the classroom is full of play and learning social skills. My son's speech delay actually didn't impact him much in pre-k. He had great teachers, he managed to make friends who somehow understood his words etc And he loved the "jewish things" in school so much that I didn't consider public school. Now that there is an academic component to school it's, unfortunately, a much more complicated decision.

But the thing is, depending on your kid's delay, the public school setting may be a regular classroom with speech therapy twice a week. I would never pull my kid out of day school for that. Now if the local Board of Ed wanted to put him in some impressive special ed classroom setting with intensive daily therapy, I'd 100% consider it. But that's not was offfered, even for a child like mine who's issue seem to be much more severe than yours.

The trendy word these days is mainstreaming. Let's keep your kid in a mainstream classroom and do pullout therapy. Now cost aside, I'd rather just put them in a frum school and do pull out therapy. Why a public school if it's a reg. classroom with regular teachers? Also, while some of our board of ed therapists have been great, some have been dismal. So, for now, we do private therapy and submit to our insurance though that doesn't cover social skills therapy.

amother

Fri, Dec 23 2011, 10:01 am

One more thing. At age 3, I was able to get a free speech therapist twice a week throuhg our early intervention program and she even worked with ds in his pre-k classroom. I had her speak to his teachers and give them ideas on how to help him. I had her snoop around and evaluate that he was getting his needs met, etc And when ds was 5 he even qualified for a developmental therapist and she also worked with him (for free through the board of ed program) in his private day school classroom. She did group activities and pulled out kids with him one on one to work on social skills. All for free through the early intervention proggrams, all at the day school.

amother

Fri, Dec 23 2011, 10:15 am

[I]I'd love to know where all of you live that special needs schools Jewish schools are so readily available. I'm in NY, and know far too many families who have been told there's no place for their special needs kids.

From last year:

Quote:

Special-Needs Families Fighting Jewish Day Schools
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Jodi and Gavin Samuels with daughter Caily, who they are trying to keep in a Jewish school. Michael Datikash
Jodi and Gavin Samuels with daughter Caily, who they are trying to keep in a Jewish school. Michael Datikash

Painful battles to get their kids placed.
Wednesday, June 9, 2010
Adam Dickter
Assistant Managing Editor

In three years, Jodi and Gavin Samuels may face one of the most difficult decisions of their lives.

Born with Down syndrome, their daughter Caily, now 2, will outgrow the Chabad preschool program she attends on the Upper West Side. That means her parents will have to choose between sending her miles away from home to a Jewish program for children with disabilities, such as one in Teaneck, N.J., or to a public school.

The yeshiva closest to home, Manhattan Day School, where the Samuelses’ two older children attend, has refused to accept — or even interview — Caily, despite high cognitive test scores that her parents have been told make her an excellent candidate for inclusion.

“Chabad has been very warm and embracing,” said Jodi Samuels, a South Africa native who came to America with her husband because they wanted their three children to have a good Jewish education. “They believe in the value that every child deserves a Jewish education. But we have no option after age 5.”

The Samuels family is part of a growing movement of special- needs families who are fed up with having to fight the system of Jewish day schools to ensure that their children get a proper Jewish education.

There are several area special-education programs such as Cahal and Kulanu, both in Cedarhurst, L.I., Yeshiva for Special Students in Kew Gardens Hills, Queens; Sinai School in Teaneck, N.J., and Ivdu in Midwood, Brooklyn that provide a specialized Jewish curriculum. Because of the higher staff-to-child ratio required, tuition at these schools tends to be considerably higher than at typical yeshivas.

Those specialized programs have varying degrees of joint activity with mainstream students in other schools, but critics say yeshivas and day schools have been reluctant to expand inclusion or explore creative new ways of integrating special-needs students.

There is currently no Jewish school that provides a full-time inclusion class in which special needs children can learn alongside their peers while receiving assistance from special education teachers, says Jeff Lichtman, national director of Yachad, the Orthodox Union’s program for special-needs kids.

Inclusion classes are now available in many public schools.

“Essentially, nobody has it” in Jewish day schools says Lichtman, who estimates that between 5 and 20 percent of children in Jewish day schools have special needs across a wide spectrum.

Manhattan Day School’s roster of students does include those with learning disabilities, many of whom travel from far away to attend the Modern Orthodox institution on the Upper West Side. But the Samuels family says the school draws the line at children with cognitive disabilities.

Rabbi Mordechai Besser, principal of Manhattan Day School, said in an e-mail message that he could not discuss the specifics of Caily Samuels’ case. But he added “MDS takes very seriously its responsibility to serve as a community school, and has long been at the forefront of Modern Orthodox Jewish day schools in accepting children with special needs. In fact, given its relative uniqueness, we currently have students enrolled in our Special Ed program from all five boroughs, as well as Westchester and Long Island.

“However, we cannot accept every student, and [we] evaluate each admission request to determine whether MDS is the appropriate educational setting for that particular child.”

But the Samuelses say their daughter was never interviewed and they were told that an evaluation of her by an outside agency was not even read. They also say Rabbi Besser told them that if Caily is admitted, others with severe disabilities would have to be accepted too.

In a second e-mail to The Jewish Week, Rabbi Besser said, “Without discussing the specifics of this case, when the Admissions Committee receives admission requests and accompanying material, all of this is reviewed in order to determine whether MDS is the appropriate educational setting for a child. If after reviewing the request and all the material the committee concludes that it is not the right setting, then we do not bring the child in for an interview.”

Lichtman cautions that discussing inclusion as a general topic overlooks the reality that special-needs kids have a wide range of abilities and deficits. Some may have a high or above average IQ. “You have to provide for the needs of children individually and collectively,” he said. For example, he notes that while Yachad has a summer camp that has joint activities with other camps, there is still a need for the Hebrew Academy for Special Children’s camp, a self-contained program.

“Not every child, given their own unique needs, can be in an inclusive program,” said Lichtman, who speculated that MDS may be looking further down the road from preschool. “I think they feel they can’t respond to the needs of a child with Down syndrome. I may disagree with that, but it is relatively easy to include kids in preschool, but in my opinion educationally when you move beyond that it gets much more complicated.”

But parents and advocates are calling for more of a communal effort to think outside the box. There have been two panel discussions held in recent weeks, in Riverdale and on the Upper West Side, to call attention to the problem.

At Congregation Shearith Israel on May 24, about 160 people turned out to hear a panel of experts call for more inclusion. Only a small percentage of audience members said they had children with special needs. Most wanted to know what they could do to help.

Families like the Samuelses worry that they will be forced to give up on a Jewish education. “If my daughter doesn’t have a Jewish education, she is not part of the family in the same way,” said Jodi Samuels, who works in Internet marketing and has started a Facebook group, Caily’s World, to call attention to her battle with MDS. “She has enough challenges in life. Why should she have social challenges as well? The Upper West Side is one of the wealthiest communities. We’re hoping to change the system.”

But not much has changed since the 1990s when Shelley Cohen and her husband, Ruvan, battled to have their son, Nathaniel, whose battle with Duchenne muscular dystrophy required him to use a wheelchair, included in a yeshiva program. Unable to enroll him at MDS, their school of choice, the Cohens sent their son from Manhattan on a 90-minute commute to the Kushner Academy in Livingston, N.J. But doctors insisted such a commute was too stressful for Nathaniel and urged them to find a closer school.

“I spent his entire sixth grade year trying to find a day school here in Manhattan that would accept him and went from pluralistic to Reform and not one school was willing to accept Nathaniel,” said Cohen. “There is learning disability that is associated with Duchenne, but he is not at all a behavior issue. He was one of the most eager-to-learn children you’d meet in a lifetime.”

And the challenges weren’t only at school. “I had to fight to get him into a Jewish camp and to have a ramp at the bima [at Lincoln Square Synagogue] so he can have an aliyah. There are issues always.”

Manhattan Day School ultimately admitted Nathaniel for seventh and eighth grade, and the Cohens were told by a rabbi that he not only had a positive effect on other classmates but on the administration.

“He ended up being a total asset,” said Cohen. “It is usually the case that a special-needs kid raises the level of the school. Most schools find that it adds to the culture and doesn’t detract and doesn’t make the best and brightest any less best or less bright.”

When Nathaniel, whose condition gradually paralyzed him, died at age 21 in 2007, the Cohens became activists to ensure that other parents wouldn’t have to share their experience. In his memory, they have sponsored a workshop program every year at Yeshiva Chovevei Torah, the Modern Orthodox rabbinical seminary in Riverdale that focuses, on a rotating basis, on the needs of the physically disabled and those of the developmentally disabled.

“I’m hoping there will be a trickle-down effect, that if [rabbis] are sensitive to what is essentially the weakest link in society, people who have trouble speaking for themselves, we will have a more sensitive Jewish community as a whole,” said Shelley Cohen.

Lichtman of Yachad says the “majority of [special-needs] kids across the country are included in some way, while virtually none were in the past,” but he says kids with serious developmental disabilities like Down syndrome and autism are “typically not included” outside specific programs, some of which are located in mainstream schools.

He stressed that education programs that include shared mainstream activities, such as assemblies, gym, lunch and recess, are as important as shared learning time.

“Inclusion is inclusion,” he said. “Kids are interacting with each other much more at recess and lunch than in the classroom.”

“The Jewish community, in my opinion, should have a broad spectrum of education services developed over time to meet the needs of all Jewish children,” said Lichtman. “But that doesn’t mean every single child should have a fully inclusive education.”

Rabbi Dov Linzer, who with his wife, Devorah Zlochower, has also become an activist for special-needs families, believes that the first step toward inclusion must be to place it more prominently on the communal agenda.

As rosh yeshiva of Chovevei Torah, he wants to ensure that the future rabbis in his charge understand the issues involved.

“The goal is to sensitize all the students and make them aware of the problems, especially with invisible disabilities,” said Rabbi Linzer, who, with his wife, has two children with special needs. “It’s so easy not to be aware that this exists in the community.” The workshop offered a chance to provide early insights that will shape their approaches to the problem once they assume a pulpit or communal leadership position.

Just as an aside, though, Camp Nesher did accept Nathaniel. Every year, they hold an intercamp competition, called Yom Nate, in his memory.

amother

Fri, Dec 23 2011, 10:27 am

FTR, Florida does not provide CPSE services like NY and other states do. A child in PS can have an IEP, and if eligible will receive a very limited number of services, often provided in groups and by a mediocre therapist. There are no IEPs for private school kids.

The only free services for a five year old would be through Medicaid. Otherwise, it will go through private insurance, out of pocket, or via therapists that the school itself has on staff.

rain

Fri, Dec 23 2011, 11:01 am

I work in a public preschool where there are many (prob around 20!) frum preschoolers. what most parents do are send their child for pre k and kindergarten, and then put them in yeshiva for first grade
if you think your kids will be best off in public school in terms of them aquiring skills that can help them be placed in a yeshiva later, it may be worth it

Mama Bear

Fri, Dec 23 2011, 12:54 pm

What? Brooklyn is the CAPITAL of jewish Special Ed Preschool programs!! Yeled VYalda has FOUR branches. Then there are HASC, Shma koleinu, Otsar, Mishkon, Ais Laasos, Machzik Bracha, Strivright, just to name a few. All board of ed funded. And in many regular preschools you can have SEIT and speech therapy in school.

Mama Bear

Fri, Dec 23 2011, 1:17 pm

Wait, NJ amother,, we're not talking Jewish special ed schools past age 5. yes, that is a major problem which I'm dealing with right now. There is only one free school for autistic kids and it's hard to get into. You were also specifically talking about Manhattan;yes, , Manhattan is lacking in options for Jewish Special Ed, any age. But who do you think started all these Brooklyn schools? The Brooklynites who saw the lack of schools.. In any event, the OP is talking about ages 3-5, nd in Brooklyn there are a plethora of options, Bh. NY is really the bet swhen it comes to special needs, I m o grateful.

Last edited by Mama Bear on Fri, Dec 23 2011, 1:26 pm; edited 1 time in total

amother

Fri, Dec 23 2011, 1:21 pm

MB, the OP doesn't live in NY. Talking about the options in Brooklyn is not really productive in this thread.

amother

Fri, Dec 23 2011, 1:30 pm

in general its harder to mainstream in a regular ed school. some schools don't want to work with you. it was really hard trying to get my dc's needs met. I had to put in a special school.

brooklyn has a lot of other special ed schools for older children, they work with you about the tuition price, the price of my dc's school is harvard tuition. there are a lot of hoops to jump through, but it works.

my dc has a speech delay. while they teach regular subjects they deal with dc's issues. so I do think it was worth it to send to a special school hope fully dc can be mainstreamed sooner rather than later. can you get any services in a jewish school? in my experience some teachers are better than others, how is the philosophy of the jewish school in general are they willing to work with you or not? will they repeat instruction for your child. will they help him? or will they hold him up to regular ed standards? what exactly will the public school offer? will they work on the issues?

Mama Bear

Fri, Dec 23 2011, 1:30 pm

I am specifically replying to the amother several posts upthread asking "where all those schools iin Ny are. "Sorry, I should have quoted her post or specified who I was replying to. I'm on a tablet computer and it's SO annoying to type with 2 fingers on an on screen keyboard which is why I'm making so many typos and being very brief, hence sometimes my replies may be confusing.

Mama Bear

Fri, Dec 23 2011, 1:38 pm

NJ amother, that article is SO wrong!! Gan Yisroel in Borough Park has a class for Down Syndrome girls in a regular school building. Wmsbg has Bi-Yi, a bbilingual program in the public school, full of Downs Syndrome kids. For free. The Samuelses have dozens of options. Yes, there is still a problem of integration in our school system, but there isnt't another Jewish community anywhere in the states with SO MANY options -- sorry if it culdn't be precisely in the Upper West Side...

I've become very well versed, unfortunately, in this whole topic. It needs its own thread, I don't want to hijack this one.

the world's best mom

Sat, Dec 24 2011, 8:01 pm

Besides, the article was talking about inclusion classes, not special ed schools. That's much harder to find.

amother

Sat, Dec 24 2011, 8:18 pm

OP, have you spoken to your child's school to see how they can accommodate his needs? It may be that they are willing & able to help with a shadow, in-school & at-home therapies & an IEP from the Board of Ed. I assume you had him evaluated? If you're in NY you have more options available to you than you may have in Wyoming for example.

Whatever you decide, I'm sure Hashem will guide you. Much luck to you!

amother

Sat, Dec 24 2011, 8:24 pm

Last amother, I wanted to edit my post but couldn't find a way to do it.

I just saw you're in FL. I don't know what your options there are but I suggest you start off by reaching out to the school & LEA. AFAIK, Federal law has to offer alternatives for pre-schoolers with disabilities: try to get him into a Head Start program. there may be a Jewish one nearby. Also, if you run up against a brick wall with the LEA hire an advocacy lawyer to fight on your behalf so you get optimum services & the LEA pays for it all. It may be expensive or maybe you can claim lawyers fees as well.

marina

Sat, Dec 24 2011, 8:29 pm

It really depends on the district. There are some places where I would not send my kid to public school over my dead body.

In other places... let's just say that I know a very prominent shlucha, who is in charge of several organizations and is a world reknown speaker, who recently put all her kids in public schools in her district because they were gifted and the frum schools were not up to par.

amother

Sat, Dec 24 2011, 8:35 pm

Tanget here: I'm sure you have done everything for your dc. Just in case these haven't come up... Have you checked his ears? My friend's ds wasn't talking and at 3 they found out he had fluid in his ears. Right after he got tubes he started to talk. Also, I read an article about a boy who wasn't speaking who ended up having sleep apnea. When that was resolved he also started to speak. In a different vain, have you tried teaching him some signs? If he (and you) can learn 10-15 signs you'll at least have a good start for communication. May you see much nachas from him. Very Happy

marina

Sat, Dec 24 2011, 8:36 pm

We sent our kids for a year to a private secular Montessori school because there were no Jewish preschools in that area. It was one of my best decisions. They learned so much that year and gained a great deal of independence and confidence. The school was very respectful of all the kashrus rules and all other issues.

naomi2

Sat, Dec 24 2011, 9:03 pm

saw50st8 wrote:

Your son is 3.

Sending him to a public school (provided its the best option for him overall) will allow him to get up to level with his peers and then mainstream.

I know plenty of kids who have/are doing this.

Both my sisters did part day in public school. Both are Torah observant and married frum people.

The goal is to take care of delays early so he can hopefully be mainstreamed as soon as possible. The longer you wait, the more likely it is that Yeshivas will NOT be able to deal with his problems and he may end up in public school full time.

my son is turning three soon and has been in a preschool with nonjewish children, and will continue there till hes five if he needs. the window of opportunity for growth in children is open from 0-5 after that, learning new skills becomes so much harder. I think you need to ask a shaila and reallize that we are talking about preschool here. he probably wont even remember most of it but the growth and skills will stay forever. deal with elementary school when it comes to that. he may do so well in preschool and be mainstreemed for grade school. please also talk to mothers, specifically ones that have special needs children. they can help weigh the pros and cons much better than mothers of average children. in the end you are your childs best advocate and you must do what you feel is right for him. even if people will turn up their noses at public school.