Found empty package in son's laundry.

5*Mom

Thu, Jan 19 2012, 4:03 am

amother wrote:

Firstly I would tell him at a time when you think is good for him to shmooze, ask him-I wanted to talk to you for a few minutes, do you have time now? make sure it is a time when he is settled and willing to shmooze.
THen like you said start with love and acceptance.
I would just say I love you very much NO MATTER WHAT and I am not coming to tell you what to do, you are a big boy and have made very smart decisions in your life. I just want to share with you some of my thoughts and experiences and maybe you will have a bit of a clearer picture of reality to then go on and make the responsible decisions I trust you to make.

I just think this is more empowering him adn he would listen rather than defend. also I would leave frumkeit out of it especially if you said he wouldnt care. even if he would, it is not about frumkeit, it is about morals.

Then I would say, as I was doing the laundry and emptying pockets like I always do I found a condemn wrapper. Dear son I would never snoop on you that is against my principles, but I felt it is a conversation I am ready to have with you.
people use condoms to have protected s-x. that is a very good thing, because unfortunately there are so many zexually tramsmitted deseases. people also use it as a birth control. however there is still a 15% chance of getting pregnant with a condom. so these are the facts I wanted to make sure we have clear. if one was to get a girl pregnant there is no turning back. it is his child as well (would not say your child). that means real life. means financial and emotional support to a baby and the baby's mother.
another side point, when having s-x with a girl below the age of __, it can lead to legal troubles as well, underage girls.

g-d gave us s-x to enjoy. it is NOT a bad thing. it is actually a pleasurable experience and meant to be so. but everything needs to be at the rite time and place. when having s-x with a girl it is an expression of love and care. one has to give to the girl emotioanlly as well and then the physical is even that much better. when we are young it is hard not to use someone for our own pleasure. it is hard to be in rite mindset. and we may misuse this wonderful pleasure. (k here just blabbing, but find out nice ways to talk about s-x and why we have it to get close and is sign of ultimate closeness and when have that can gt close to g-d......)

and I would mention that I am not assuming you have had any relaations with anyone. feel free to talk about it if you'd like. I am here if you have any questions. I am happy to pay for you to speak to someone confidential. it is a NORMAL thing for teenage boys to go throut. it is a natural and HEALTHY sign tht a man's hormones are in place. we just need to learn how to go about handling our feelings and stuff......
reassure him that he is normal! and that the lines of communication are open even for topics like this.

best of luck. easier said than done!
daven before you talk to him Smile

THIS THIS THIS!!!

AND, b/c of his history, you and DH should consult with a therapist specifically trained to deal with post-molestation issues.

Hug

chani8

Thu, Jan 19 2012, 7:03 am

What is still bothering me, is that I feel like I'm totally crossing boundaries on this idea of discussing it with ds. How many of you talked about zex with your parents? (This sounds like a great topic for a new thread. Whoever knows the right place to post it, go for it.) Anyway, I wonder what I would've said if my mom approached me about zex when I was a teen. I think I'd have said, "This is not something I want to talk about with you, Mom."

My other concern is, does this mean my son is OTD? He seems pretty stable otherwise. But if his girlfriend is mesorati and he's having zex, which isn't done in his crowd, does that mean he's become mesorati? Should I ask him?

5*Mom

Thu, Jan 19 2012, 7:13 am

amother wrote:

AND, b/c of his history, you and DH should consult with a therapist specifically trained to deal with post-molestation issues.

Is there a therapist that specializes in post-molestation issues? How would one identify who is specific for this?[/quote]

There are child safety organizations in various locations that could provide referrals. Medical and mental health referral agencies could provide referrals. There are psychologists, social workers and therapists that deal with general trauma but s*xual abuse, specifically child s*xual abuse, is really its own category since we generally are interested in avoiding most other traumatic situations, but s*x is and should be a part of a healthy relationship and a healthy life. This takes specialized training and experience.

Tzippora

Thu, Jan 19 2012, 7:15 am

chani8 wrote:

It'd be one thing if you were snooping or bringing it up out of the blue - but you aren't. He may not want to talk about it - and maybe that's what he'll say - but it is important that you bring it up even if he doesn't want to have a deep and meaningful conversation about it.

Don't ask him to categorize himself now, and don't do it for him. He's probably not sure and in any case, by the time he's an adult, that categorization could change 10 times - not need to lock him into an identity when he's clearly exploring.

5*Mom

Thu, Jan 19 2012, 7:26 am

chani8 wrote:

I didn't discuss s*x with my parents but I have and do with my dd, who is younger than your ds and still a BY-type of girl. She actually brought it up when she told me that she had heard something (crazy) from her friends and I felt that the best thing to do was give her accurate information PLUS a healthy context within which to put all that new information. It is an ongoing discussion that I think all parents should be having with their teenage children, especially today when there are so many sick messages from without and within, in both directions, about s*x and relationships.

Don't be concerned with labeling him OTD. What difference does the label make except to give him and you the message that it's all or nothing, one area of immature judgment and he's as good as lost. This message, more than anything else, does tremendous harm to our kids. There's no need to go there.

amother

Thu, Jan 19 2012, 7:39 am

chani8 wrote:

I am the amother who wrote that long post above about how to approach it (the one people said THIS about.)
I did it anonymous because I would like to share some more.
my husband is a TOP YESHIVISH guy who is rebbe. He is a s-x addict. Now let me tell you loud and clear
THIS AINT HOW WE GREW UP!!!!!!
Although my husband had addiction even before the internet was around, the internet had made this way worse. There is not really such a big OTD group anymore. many of them are in white shirts and black pants but going to pr--stitutes and parlors etc. If you want to know go check out Guardyoureyes.coom and see how many hundreds of YESHIVISH TOP guys are around confessign about all the s-x they had. Many of them are addicts (like my husband because of a troubled backround), but many of them just lost agains their yetzer hara and became a bad detirorating habbit and thus called an addiction.
My oldest is 6 so I have time to worry (I hope). But this MUST be brought up to our kids. otherwise they will type S-X into google and the rest is history.

so to answer your question: IMO it is not a "bad" conversation to have with your son. It may be uncomfortable just like most RIGHT things in life are. As frum and yeshivish as I am I really don't think this is a matter of religion, and if you do make it, he probably wont accept it-not cuz off derech but bec. no teenager really wants to hear about religion.
Gotta go, welcome to email me at stillproudwife@gmail.com

amother

Thu, Jan 19 2012, 7:39 am

chani8 wrote:

amother

Thu, Jan 19 2012, 7:45 am

candyheart wrote:

I would carefully address the issue of what you found, before launching into any stated assumptions about him actually using it. As others mentioned, he may have it due to the coolness factor. Consider this: had he actually used it, under what conditions would the wrapper have made its way back into his pocket? I would see how he responds before letting him think that you assume he is actually sxually active.

I agree with this.

OP, although it is probably unlikely given what you have written, I wonder if there is a chance that someone planted the wrapper in his pocket to get him into trouble, either someone he knows or even the girl. Could it be that he, himself put it there hoping for a reaction from you when you found it?

One of my first thoughts when reading the OP was, as candyheart wondered, under what circumstances would an opened wrapper get back in his pocket? I guess it could be that the condom was flushed but there was no garbage can or they didn't want to leave the wrapper in the garbage so he put it in his pocket intending to dispose of it later but then forgot but that is the only way I can think of that it got there, unless it was deliberately planted.

I'm sorry you're going through this OP. You have received some good advice here, I hope you get to the bottom of the situation and find a way forward.

amother

Thu, Jan 19 2012, 8:56 am

If this is the worst effect of your son being molested, count yourself lucky. It may not be what you wanted for him, but it definitely is in the realm of normal 16 year old behaviour. The girl is a bit young, but there are s@xually active girls at that age, and it is not at all illegal in Israel (although I do not agree with the pp who said that 14 is a totally normal age for relations in Israel. I teach high schoolers here. Yes, many are s@xually active, but 16 is usually the age to start, not 14, and even then, I'd guess at least half wait till 18).

I don't know if these relations are an effect of the molestation, could just be normal hormones.

No, don't ask him if he's become mesorati. He's not marrying the girl yet. He just has a relationship with her. At his age, it doesn't mean he needs to redefine his identity, and I wouldn't pressure him to even think in that direction.

I agree with whoever said, this is a public forum. I could see it before I logged in even. If anyone ever figures out who 'chani' is, or if you, op, decide to come to meets in Israel, for example, then you've made some very private information about your ds public. I would strongly consider asking the mods to change all your posts on this thread to amother.

amother

Thu, Jan 19 2012, 10:23 am

-I'm the amother who recommends cake!

I just think that your relationship can only improve from talking to him about it. It might be uncomfortable for him, but why shouldn't this be discussed? He should be able to talk to you about ANYTHING! You're his MOMMY! I was BEGGING (silently!) my mother to ask me if I was active with my HS BF!

I also wanted to put in that maybe keep in mind when planning your "attack" (lol) that if your DS HASN'T been active, you don't want to assume it and come off as so easy-going about it that now he thinks, "well, I guess if mom and dad don't care anyway..." There are other--er--reasons boys use condoms, some are more... alone-ish.

I would suggest asking how he feels about this girl. If he really loves her, then your approach should be assuming that she's THE ONE. Is this best for you two, if it's really a lasting relationship you can manage to wait, it shows respect, it shows how much you really care about her, and you can have something special for when you are married. It is also a way of protecting her from any accidents c"v"s. I strongly agree with the poster who suggested talking to a kiruv rabbi. Shomer negiah (and abstinence) is not taught to BTs with "Gd says its evil!" There are lots of wonderful, meaningful arguments that can reach someone at any level of observance. Your son may be getting something, some understanding or acceptance, from this girl that he doesn't get elsewhere--if you oppose her, you could lose him. Boys can be VERY protective of girlfriends.

*hugs*

All the best, you seem like an amazing mom. He's a lucky boy.