leaving a baby alone

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Forum -> Parenting our children -> Infants

Leaving a baby alone

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mumoo

Tue, Nov 28 2006, 7:12 pm

S.Shcwartz wrote:

I was thinking the same thing, I always leave my baby sleeping to drop/pick up my toddler. But I live in a private house, second floor. Is that crazy?!

do you drive away from the house? just stepping outside isn't the same thing

healthymama

Wed, Nov 29 2006, 2:42 am

I can't believe how nasty some of you people are on this thread. Actually, I can, just like all the other imamother threads- people feel like their way, their culture, their system is right and anyone else is just crazy, dumb, stupid, insert any insult you want. Ugh.

The mother who has to go to the train station at 5:30- don't judge her until you are in her shoes and your choice is between parnassah and waking up your infant in the middle of the night.

And Raisin is absolutely right. Statistically it is WAY safer for an infant to stay home for ten min. than to travel 10 min. in a car from home.

All of us as parents try to do our best to keep our kids safe and our lives functioning smoothly. The safety and well being of our children is our number one priority. That said, get off your high horses and instead of dumping your righteous indignation on the mom, offer to help her out. Tell her that you'll watch her baby at 5:30 in the morning and tell her that you can drive her kid's carpool. And by the way : advice like " oh, find some other arrangment" is not useful because chances are that she's tried everything and this is her last resort.

Also, ruchel's comment about cultures is right on. Those from other countries and cultures know that legal and ethical standards are very different from American ones. Even American standards today are very different from those twenty years ago.

S.Shcwartz

Wed, Nov 29 2006, 9:49 am

mumoo wrote:

S.Shcwartz wrote:

I was thinking the same thing, I always leave my baby sleeping to drop/pick up my toddler. But I live in a private house, second floor. Is that crazy?!

do you drive away from the house? just stepping outside isn't the same thing

No, of course I don't drive away. I'm right there, one flight down. But with all this criticism around here, I wanted to know where I stand!! Why don't we all take care of our own kids and MOB...

chen

Wed, Nov 29 2006, 10:02 am

S.Shcwartz wrote:

Why don't we all take care of our own kids and MOB...

because it takes a village to rear a child. because kol yisroel areivim zeh bozeh. because lo saamod al dam rei-echo, and that goes double for rei-echo's children. if I see a person endangering the welfare of a child, you're darn tootin' I have a responsibility to do something about it.

It never fails to amaze me how people who will critique someone's housekeeping, cooking, financial responsibility, color of tablecloth, style of shoe, level of religious observance, political affiliations and for all I know contents of medicine cabinet--are suddenly stricken deaf, mute, blind and holy-holy-holy "it's none of my business" when it comes to the safety of a child.

mumsy23

Wed, Nov 29 2006, 10:10 am

healthymama wrote:

I can't believe how nasty some of you people are on this thread. Actually, I can, just like all the other Imamother threads- people feel like their way, their culture, their system is right and anyone else is just crazy, dumb, stupid, insert any insult you want. Ugh.

The mother who has to go to the train station at 5:30- don't judge her until you are in her shoes and your choice is between parnassah and waking up your infant in the middle of the night.

And Raisin is absolutely right. Statistically it is WAY safer for an infant to stay home for ten min. than to travel 10 min. in a car from home.

All of us as parents try to do our best to keep our kids safe and our lives functioning smoothly. The safety and well being of our children is our number one priority. That said, get off your high horses and instead of dumping your righteous indignation on the mom, offer to help her out. Tell her that you'll watch her baby at 5:30 in the morning and tell her that you can drive her kid's carpool. And by the way : advice like " oh, find some other arrangment" is not useful because chances are that she's tried everything and this is her last resort.

Also, ruchel's comment about cultures is right on. Those from other countries and cultures know that legal and ethical standards are very different from American ones. Even American standards today are very different from those twenty years ago.

EXCELLENT POST!!

I was thinking the EXACT same thing but you worded much better than I could have! Some of you people really need to learn to be a little bit more open minded to the fact that not everything that YOU perceive as dangerous is really dangerous.

MyKidsRQte

Wed, Nov 29 2006, 10:15 am

I make it a point not to leave a sleeping baby alone. When I take a shower, I take it when she is up and locked into the bathroom with me. I have a big apartment and I put intercoms through the house so I can monitor her. As I live on a third floor, I do not go down unless I take her.

Chaya123

Wed, Nov 29 2006, 10:43 am

I'm also aghast that ppl can leave their babies alone for more than a minute. It's downright neglect and illegal! Please, let's watch over our precious children!

happymom

Wed, Nov 29 2006, 10:53 am

Quote:

Well, I know some people will scream at me, but I will admit to leaving my baby asleep while I run out to get DD from the bus. I live in an apartment building on the first floor. I will go into the lobby and wait by the door, or I will stand waiting outside by my kitchen window to hear if anything is amiss. If she is awake, I bring her out with me.
Also, if my baby is asleep, safely in her swing or bed, I will take a shower. Is that neglect? I dont know. I am never more than a few steps away (tiny apartment), but why should I wake a sleeping baby if I am SO close to her proximally?

what u are saying is different then going shopping, to the gym, or doing carpool. u say u can hear your baby and get her if she wakes up. do no u are doing doing anything wrong imo.

Ruchel u know ppl who leave thier toodlers for a night shock

or a baby for hours??? If I knew of someone like that, id call the police, and im not joking. that is extremely dangerous. I sometimes wonder why some ppl have children in the first place. Would a woman leave her baby in the middle of traffic to run and get a thousand dollars that fell behind her? sometimes we cant do the things we want when we have children!!!!!! Who said having kids was easy? thats the life with kids. ppl should either deal with it, or seriously think about having kids......

mimsy7420

Wed, Nov 29 2006, 10:59 am

happymom wrote:

Quote:

Well said.

To all those that think that its ok to leave your baby and actually drive away. (I'm not talking to those mothers who are still on the premises) Do you know that if something happens and you are not their that they will take your baby away? It could be the most nothing thing that happens - the fire department comes to another apartment in the building, someone calls the cops in the building for any reason, and if they find out that you left your baby alone they WILL take your baby away. So go ahead and take that chance if it is worth it to you.

yoyosma

Wed, Nov 29 2006, 12:42 pm

Well, you should know that even leaving my baby alone while I am a step away makes me so nervous, I am running in and out and once almost missed DD's bus.
I dont think there is anything wrong with showering if the baby is safely asleep in its crib. I would not take a sleeping baby in the bathroom with me. However, if she was awake and I had to go shower, then I would bring her in with me, the water would probably put her to sleep!

JRKmommy

Wed, Nov 29 2006, 12:43 pm

I am not posting this to get my jollies putting others down.

I am posting because it was/is part of my job to be "judgmental" about situations like this (since I do family and child protection law), because I can tell you about situations that weren't "just fine", and because I have also dealt with carpool issues.

1. I can't speak about all places in the world - but in Toronto, the police WILL call in the Children's Aid (or Jewish Family and Child Services) and the child WILL be apprehended immediately and taken into foster care if they are left alone in the house without adult supervision. I'm obviously talking about a younger child, not a teenager, and taken a shower or waiting on the front porch is not considered leaving a child alone unsupervised. This isn't a threat - it's a fact, and I've seen it happen in a number of cases.

2. If c"v anything happens to a child who is left alone, not only would you need to live with that fact, and not only would you have the children taken away, but you would also face serious criminal charges.

In one of my cases, the parents went out and left their 5 children - ranging from 5 mo to 11 years old - at home. The baby choked to death on a screw that was lying around. Both Children's Aid and the police went after the parents full force - they were convicted of criminal negligence causing death, and only got limited, supervised access to their children despite the fact that the kids all said they wanted to return home. [I can't give any more details than that, due to confidentiality concerns.]

In the event of a fire, you would hear the smoke detector if you were home. However, you wouldn't be able to respond in time if you weren't.

Babies can get caught between the crib bars. I've seen my kids get legs struck. Babies can also spit up in the night and start gagging. Toddlers can climb out of the crib, or fall out of a bed. These aren't rare things - we've had them happen in my family (I was actually the one to climb out of the crib, according to my dad).

I've also been driving when I've unexpectedly gotten stuck b/c of a car accident, or bad road conditions. In August/05, as I was doing a routine carpool run to pick up my 5 yr old, there was a sudden storm and flash flood in the road. The "quick trip" ended up taking hours. Another time, I was doing a quick trip on the highway when my transmission conked out, and again, it took a few hours to get things resolved. In August/03, during a quick trip to the grocery store, we had a giant blackout. The trip back, which would normally be just a few minutes, was a nightmare because none of the traffic lights were working. My point is that things can and DO happen.

3. Yes, doing carpools is a pain when you have a sleeping infant. Take the baby with you anyway. This will be much easier if you use an infant car seat. I did this all the time with my younger ones. Carry them to the car in the car seat, click it in, and away you go. It may be more work, but it is certainly not impossible.

4. For older babies/toddlers, try to schedule naps so that they don't interfere with needed errands. For example, if I need to go out at 3:00 p.m., I know that ds needs to go down for his nap by 1:00 p.m.

5. For showers when you have mobile babies/toddlers: try putting an exersaucer in the bathroom. It worked well for us - I was even able to take baths that way.

yoyosma

Wed, Nov 29 2006, 12:49 pm

Chaya123 wrote:

I'm also aghast that ppl can leave their babies alone for more than a minute. It's downright neglect and illegal! Please, let's watch over our precious children!

Really? And every time you go to the bathroom, baby comes with? Please, if your baby is in its crib and you are in the living room, you are leaving him/her alone! Dont you need to be right next to it?

Some of the comments here are a bit much. To those of you who never have your babies out of your sight, good for you. How many children do you have? Answer that so I can get a better understanding. You probably have one kid. According to you then, I must be super neglectful because I give one kid a bath while the other kid is in the other room. No, I dont bring the baby with me if she is fine in her swing or what not. I am right there.

yoyosma

Wed, Nov 29 2006, 12:52 pm

Quote:

Babies can also spit up in the night and start gagging. T

JRK, this can happen any time, not just carpool time. I should hope that people arent running around at night and leaving the babies home, but kids spit up. Thats life. Unless you are the type of mother who puts the kids to sleep in the infant seats (I was because oldest DD had reflux) then you really cant do anything about this.

Mama Bear

Wed, Nov 29 2006, 1:23 pm

JKR was right on the money. Wow. couldnt have said it better.

btw... there are people who would leave their oldest child (at times 11 years old) to babysit but that would only be AT NIGHT when all the children are asleep. but a baby alone???

Once I ran downstairs to get a package from the street, when I came up my baby, then 3 months old, had turned to his side with his face into the crib bumper. I had a neis.

MommyLuv

Wed, Nov 29 2006, 1:29 pm

Right, Yoyosma...which is just another reason why infants need close supervision...
(and I don't mean babies need us hovering over them 24/7.... I mean a responsible adult being within crying distance to check on the baby periodically when sleeping, and care for the child when he's awake.)

it's common sense, no?

(JRKMommy, as lawyer you must know: what is the earliest age a caregiver can legally be? .....Cuz I remember babysitting several children at a time, for neighbours or relatives, as early as 11-12 yrs old....)

yoyosma

Wed, Nov 29 2006, 2:25 pm

Mindy, I personally am not a big believer in baby bumpers in cribs, EVER. They are there for purely aesthetic purposes. When the baby is a newborn, it lies still, so the bumper isnt protecting it from anything. Once the baby is moving around, ALL experts reccomend taking the bumper out of the crib to avoid what you unfortunately experienced. And lets not talk about the babies who use bumpers to pull up and fall out of cribs....

In my opinion, bumpers are useless. No, I dont own one. My babies never bruised themselves by slamming into the rails.

greenfire

Wed, Nov 29 2006, 2:31 pm

JRK - I agree fully
and don't you guys hear the news and all the kids who are taken away from parents cause of their down right neglect. Imagine what the kids suffer through over something so stupid. WATCH YOUR KIDS ALWAYS believe it or not even when they're teenagers they need to know you have an "eye" on them - it may make a big difference especially in today's world

shanie5

Wed, Nov 29 2006, 3:27 pm

I remember a neighbor of mine telling us that after she had one of her children, her mik nite was friday. her dh went from shul to walk her home. the kids left home were ages newborn-low teens (13 or so is my best guess).
well, an alarm went off and the police showed up. the kids begged the police to believe them that their parents just went for a quick walk. the police left, promising to come back later-which they did. BH they were all together and singing shabbos zemiros when the police returned. (they probably left the first time cuz the older kids were responsible types, but think of the what ifs there..............)

JRKmommy

Wed, Nov 29 2006, 3:55 pm

The legal age, at least in Ontario, Canada, varies depending on the circumstances.

There is a duty to provide appropriate superivsion for any child under 16 - but the supervision needed by a 16 yr old is very different than what is needed for a baby. As well, a 15 yr old with conduct disorder who is prone to breaking windows and setting fires needs more intense supervision than a mature 12 yr old.

I started babysitting at 12 - but again, that was years ago.

I had one case where the police got involved where a 9 or 10 yr old somehow got lost while walking to school in downtown Toronto.

Here's a link with information for American jurisdictions: http://www.nccic.org/poptopics/homealone.html

Re: baby's spitting up - yes, babies spit. However, they shouldn't be gagging on it, nor should they be lying all night in it. Parents should be close enough to hear what's going on with the kids, and to respond fairly quickly.

As a mom of 3, I can also say that my kids get into trouble when they are silent! My middle one would do the craziest things - climb on the kitchen table and jump off, ditto the kitchen counter, ditto the couches, play with nail polish and makeup, play with scissors, etc. For a long time, being on a different floor was being too far away.

mumoo

Wed, Nov 29 2006, 4:21 pm

leaving the house and driving away is not the same as taking a shower while your baby naps in the next room-or upstairs, for that matter

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