Can Grandpa have kiddish if he's not Jewish?

chani8

Thu, Apr 12 2012, 10:10 am

Grandma and Grandpa just got here from America, and while DH was picking them up from the airport, my kids and I were reviewing what issues might come up so we can be prepared. And in the past, we've usually just not let anyone but DH drink the kiddish, when there are guest who aren't Jewish, but this time we have a problem. For health reasons, Grandma and Grandpa are into drinking a little wine with their meals. What am I supposed to do now? Is there some leniency?? This is my mom and her husband, and he isn't Jewish (his father was!)

chani8

Thu, Apr 12 2012, 10:11 am

PS. I was wondering if maybe grape juice isn't as problematic??

HindaRochel

Thu, Apr 12 2012, 10:20 am

Yayin maveshul isn't a problem. But you can pour the wine for Grandma and Grandpa can't you? Tell them that your husband likes to do that as host.

little_mage

Thu, Apr 12 2012, 10:20 am

First, mevushal, mevushal, mevshal. Second, if no one drinks from the kiddush cup, keep that custom. If Grandma and Grandpa want wine with dinner, I'd pour out glasses to drink from with the meal after kiddush and hamotzi.
The other issue is will anyone be offended? If it's your mother and her husband, who has a Jewish father, telling them that you won't let them drink from the cup because they aren't Jewish might be really insulting.

chani8

Thu, Apr 12 2012, 10:27 am

We dont drink from one cup, DH pours from the kiddish cup to a serving cup and that serving cup pours tops off everyone else's nearly full cups.

But can I touch the cup afterward, or is there some kind of problem with that?

chani8

Thu, Apr 12 2012, 10:29 am

And I cant find out a clear answer, but I have a fun wine called Young Selected Carignano, and it doesn't say if it is mevushal or not.

We have other wine that is mevushal, for sure.

Thanks for your quick and helpful answers. If anyone knows about that Young Wine, I'd be thrilled.

HindaRochel

Thu, Apr 12 2012, 10:29 am

To the best of my knowledge no. Either pour the wine for them or get yayin mivushal.

September June

Thu, Apr 12 2012, 10:39 am

HindaRochel wrote:

To the best of my knowledge no. Either pour the wine for them or get yayin mivushal.

this is what I learned also.
grape juice is mevushal Afaik. If you pour your fil you can non mevushal wine. Otherwise use mevushal wine.

Raisin

Thu, Apr 12 2012, 10:41 am

September June wrote:

HindaRochel wrote:

To the best of my knowledge no. Either pour the wine for them or get yayin mivushal.

this is what I learned also.
grape juice is mevushal Afaik. If you pour your fil you can non mevushal wine. Otherwise use mevushal wine.

sometimes grape juice is not mevushal. check the bottle.

Raisin

Thu, Apr 12 2012, 10:42 am

also, if your wine is not labelled mevushal that means it isn't.

ElTam

Thu, Apr 12 2012, 11:43 am

As long as it is mevushal, I don't know of any problem. But this is really a question for a rav, not imamothers.

marshmellow

Thu, Apr 12 2012, 12:29 pm

is it not allowed for someone who's not Jewish to drink the wine? I never heard of that before. some non Jews attend Jewish functions I'm sure they partake of it

Yael3

Thu, Apr 12 2012, 12:57 pm

Seriously?? Anyone, Jew, non-Jew, atheist... can drink from the kidduh wine. Of course, be sure it’s mevushal. (To the three time “mevushal” writer…. This isn’t a kashrus issue. It either is or isn’t. It can’t be “sort of” mevushal like one can’t be “sort of” pregnant)

Rodent

Sat, Apr 14 2012, 12:51 pm

If your husband has poured the wine then I don't see why there is any issue, mevushal or not. If you hold that mevushal is fine for kiddush then definitely have that as a preference, personally we hold that you need non-mevushal for kiddush though so that wouldn't help here. My non-Jewish mother never partakes in kiddush though, I think it's her way of saying "you don't participate in my religious things so I won't in yours" so it hasn't really been an issue for us and I have never really discussed it with my husband.

ewa-jo

Sat, Apr 14 2012, 2:16 pm

We drink the Young Selected Carignano wine too... it's not mevushal, I just checked the label. It should say it on the silver label, to the left of the 'Rav Rubin' hachsher.

Liba

Sat, Apr 14 2012, 2:46 pm

Yael3 wrote:

You are wrong here. Different rabonim hold that the wine or grape juice needs to be heated to different temperatures to be considered mevushal. The more you learn the more you learn that things aren't always so straightforward.

DrMom

Sat, Apr 14 2012, 4:19 pm

I am confused. If Grandpa is not the one opening or pouring the wine, why is it critical that it be mevushal?

Liba

Sat, Apr 14 2012, 4:25 pm

It sounds like Grandpa will be helping himself to wine and possible passing wine to others as well.

Once he has poured from a bottle, if it isn't mevushal, none of the Jews can drink it.

DrMom

Sun, Apr 15 2012, 2:24 am

Ah, I didn't realize Grandpa would be pouring the wine at any time during the meal. In that case, I agree with the others that mevushal is the way to go.