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-> In the News
jewishmom1
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 Tue, Apr 17 2012, 10:42 pm
I agree with arcy. People just like to talk without knowing the facts and the real issues here. This boy probably thought he was doing a good thing  He was brainwashed and I'm sure regretted his actions immensely. I believe he will never commit such a crime again for those of you that dont want him in your neighborhood. My heart really goes out to his parents and family. I dont know them but I hear they are wonderful people.
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Arcy
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Tue, Apr 17 2012, 10:55 pm
| sequoia wrote: |
Who has a million dollars lying around?! |
LOL..... a million or dollars is a joke in the bank account of NS's headquarters, headed by the grand Rabbi. the "town" aka the Rebbe, can produce a lot more than that if they had to....
Last edited by Arcy on Tue, Apr 17 2012, 11:02 pm; edited 1 time in total
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5S5Sr7z3
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Tue, Apr 17 2012, 10:59 pm
| Arcy wrote: | | sequoia wrote: |
Who has a million dollars lying around?! |
LOL..... a million or dollars is a joke in the bank account of the Grand Rebbe of NS.... the town of NS, headed by the grand Rabbi can cough up a lot more than that if they had to.... |
A million bucks is chump change for that place...... And btw Arcy, I think davening starts at 11 there on shabbos morning. But I might be wrong, I'll have to double check with my husband. What I do know is, that on Pesach my husband davened at his regular shul, finished after 12, we walked in to NS for the meal, took us over an hour. We got there long before they were finished with davening there.
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DrMom
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Tue, Apr 17 2012, 11:04 pm
| jewishmom1 wrote: | | I agree with arcy. People just like to talk without knowing the facts and the real issues here. This boy probably thought he was doing a good thing He was brainwashed and I'm sure regretted his actions immensely. I believe he will never commit such a crime again for those of you that dont want him in your neighborhood. My heart really goes out to his parents and family. I dont know them but I hear they are wonderful people. |
Well now he'll have seven years to contemplate his actions. Let's see if he can figure out that trying to murder an innocent family is not "a good thing."
And let's hope the FBI puts the "Grand Rebbe" on their radar.
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ElTam
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Tue, Apr 17 2012, 11:12 pm
So Arcy, given that it appears no one else will be charged, what should happen a person, old enough to get married, drive a car, and vote who went to someone's house in the middle of the night and tried to burn it down with a whole family inside and terribly injured the father of the family, this arsonist, he should walk away because of the "big picture"? Is that what you are arguing?
So what if the arsonist had been a home-schooled, brainwashed white supremacist neo-Nazi. Someone who lived in a closed community with a strong, charismatic leader who made people's life choices for them? There are certainly such groups in the United States. Let's say an 18 year old boy from one of those groups had gone and tried to burn down the house of a Jewish family, would you be making the same argument? I mean, it's a brainwashed boy who didn't know better who grew up in a sheltered environment, so hey, let's let him walk free. Right?
Spitzer should be thanking his lucky stars that they didn't charge him with multiple counts of attempted homicide.
If people want to be DLKZ, be DLKZ on the victim who multiple people are saying is only acting for mercy form the court on his attempted killer because he got $2 million. I personally think it's more plausible that he understands this kid was a tool and was used. I'm not arguing against that part, but at the end of the day, he learned Torah and Gemara, which as I understand it lists out all the damages an arsonist is liable for, even if he didn't expect it to happen. He made a choice. He did the crime. Maybe others should be charged, but it doesn't exonerate him. If that were the case, no person in the mafia or a gang would go to jail because the higher-ups aren't being charged.
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Arcy
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Tue, Apr 17 2012, 11:26 pm
| ElTam wrote: | So Arcy, given that it appears no one else will be charged, what should happen a person, old enough to get married, drive a car, and vote who went to someone's house in the middle of the night and tried to burn it down with a whole family inside and terribly injured the father of the family, this arsonist, he should walk away because of the "big picture"? Is that what you are arguing?
So what if the arsonist had been a home-schooled, brainwashed white supremacist neo-Nazi. Someone who lived in a closed community with a strong, charismatic leader who made people's life choices for them? There are certainly such groups in the United States. Let's say an 18 year old boy from one of those groups had gone and tried to burn down the house of a Jewish family, would you be making the same argument? I mean, it's a brainwashed boy who didn't know better who grew up in a sheltered environment, so hey, let's let him walk free. Right?
Spitzer should be thanking his lucky stars that they didn't charge him with multiple counts of attempted homicide.
If people want to be DLKZ, be DLKZ on the victim who multiple people are saying is only acting for mercy form the court on his attempted killer because he got $2 million. I personally think it's more plausible that he understands this kid was a tool and was used. I'm not arguing against that part, but at the end of the day, he learned Torah and Gemara, which as I understand it lists out all the damages an arsonist is liable for, even if he didn't expect it to happen. He made a choice. He did the crime. Maybe others should be charged, but it doesn't exonerate him. If that were the case, no person in the mafia or a gang would go to jail because the higher-ups aren't being charged. |
seems like I was not clear enough.... never implied that he should walk away scott free.... someone who does something wrong, has to deal with the consequences. sometimes through a human court and sometimes through the hands of shamayim.
my point of irritation was that people were making ignorant comments w/o knowing what the issue was.... so I was clarrifying a few things for those who kept saying that they thought he should get a lifetime in jail etc...
btw, and the victim (Rottenberg) was going against the town and it's leader from day one.... Spitzer was a whole separate issue....
ps. I do not not have any doubts that the reason his sentence is so "light" (7 years vs. 25 plus) is because of the countless of tefillos that were said for him by his family and friends... and other people who know him and the whole situation on a very personal level
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DrMom
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Tue, Apr 17 2012, 11:36 pm
| Arcy wrote: | | ElTam wrote: | So Arcy, given that it appears no one else will be charged, what should happen a person, old enough to get married, drive a car, and vote who went to someone's house in the middle of the night and tried to burn it down with a whole family inside and terribly injured the father of the family, this arsonist, he should walk away because of the "big picture"? Is that what you are arguing?
So what if the arsonist had been a home-schooled, brainwashed white supremacist neo-Nazi. Someone who lived in a closed community with a strong, charismatic leader who made people's life choices for them? There are certainly such groups in the United States. Let's say an 18 year old boy from one of those groups had gone and tried to burn down the house of a Jewish family, would you be making the same argument? I mean, it's a brainwashed boy who didn't know better who grew up in a sheltered environment, so hey, let's let him walk free. Right?
Spitzer should be thanking his lucky stars that they didn't charge him with multiple counts of attempted homicide.
If people want to be DLKZ, be DLKZ on the victim who multiple people are saying is only acting for mercy form the court on his attempted killer because he got $2 million. I personally think it's more plausible that he understands this kid was a tool and was used. I'm not arguing against that part, but at the end of the day, he learned Torah and Gemara, which as I understand it lists out all the damages an arsonist is liable for, even if he didn't expect it to happen. He made a choice. He did the crime. Maybe others should be charged, but it doesn't exonerate him. If that were the case, no person in the mafia or a gang would go to jail because the higher-ups aren't being charged. |
seems like I was not clear enough.... never implied that he should walk away scott free.... someone who does something wrong, has to deal with the consequences. sometimes through a human court and sometimes through the hands of shamayim.
my point of irritation was that people were making ignorant comments w/o knowing what the issue was.... so I was clarrifying a few things for those who kept saying that they thought he should get a lifetime in jail etc...
btw, and the victim (Rottenberg) was going against the town and it's leader from day one.... Spitzer was a whole separate issue....
ps. I do not not have any doubts that the reason his sentence is so "light" (7 years vs. 25 plus) is because of the countless of tefillos that were said for him by his family and friends... and other people who know him and the whole situation on a very personal level |
So what???? New Square is not an absolute monarchy. New Square is part of the US of A, where freedom of religion is a constitutionally-guaranteed right.
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Arcy
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Tue, Apr 17 2012, 11:55 pm
| DrMom wrote: | | Arcy wrote: | | ElTam wrote: | So Arcy, given that it appears no one else will be charged, what should happen a person, old enough to get married, drive a car, and vote who went to someone's house in the middle of the night and tried to burn it down with a whole family inside and terribly injured the father of the family, this arsonist, he should walk away because of the "big picture"? Is that what you are arguing?
So what if the arsonist had been a home-schooled, brainwashed white supremacist neo-Nazi. Someone who lived in a closed community with a strong, charismatic leader who made people's life choices for them? There are certainly such groups in the United States. Let's say an 18 year old boy from one of those groups had gone and tried to burn down the house of a Jewish family, would you be making the same argument? I mean, it's a brainwashed boy who didn't know better who grew up in a sheltered environment, so hey, let's let him walk free. Right?
Spitzer should be thanking his lucky stars that they didn't charge him with multiple counts of attempted homicide.
If people want to be DLKZ, be DLKZ on the victim who multiple people are saying is only acting for mercy form the court on his attempted killer because he got $2 million. I personally think it's more plausible that he understands this kid was a tool and was used. I'm not arguing against that part, but at the end of the day, he learned Torah and Gemara, which as I understand it lists out all the damages an arsonist is liable for, even if he didn't expect it to happen. He made a choice. He did the crime. Maybe others should be charged, but it doesn't exonerate him. If that were the case, no person in the mafia or a gang would go to jail because the higher-ups aren't being charged. |
seems like I was not clear enough.... never implied that he should walk away scott free.... someone who does something wrong, has to deal with the consequences. sometimes through a human court and sometimes through the hands of shamayim.
my point of irritation was that people were making ignorant comments w/o knowing what the issue was.... so I was clarrifying a few things for those who kept saying that they thought he should get a lifetime in jail etc...
btw, and the victim (Rottenberg) was going against the town and it's leader from day one.... Spitzer was a whole separate issue....
ps. I do not not have any doubts that the reason his sentence is so "light" (7 years vs. 25 plus) is because of the countless of tefillos that were said for him by his family and friends... and other people who know him and the whole situation on a very personal level |
So what???? New Square is not an absolute monarchy. New Square is part of the US of A, where freedom of religion is a constitutionally-guaranteed right. |
Are you farmiliar w/ how NS runs? it's more of a mix of a dictatorship & communism (and a bit of capitalism).... and township of RC and DA's office look the other way because of their block vote and money exchanged under the table...
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EmesOrNT
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Wed, Apr 18 2012, 12:01 am
| Arcy wrote: | | DrMom wrote: | | Arcy wrote: | | ElTam wrote: | So Arcy, given that it appears no one else will be charged, what should happen a person, old enough to get married, drive a car, and vote who went to someone's house in the middle of the night and tried to burn it down with a whole family inside and terribly injured the father of the family, this arsonist, he should walk away because of the "big picture"? Is that what you are arguing?
So what if the arsonist had been a home-schooled, brainwashed white supremacist neo-Nazi. Someone who lived in a closed community with a strong, charismatic leader who made people's life choices for them? There are certainly such groups in the United States. Let's say an 18 year old boy from one of those groups had gone and tried to burn down the house of a Jewish family, would you be making the same argument? I mean, it's a brainwashed boy who didn't know better who grew up in a sheltered environment, so hey, let's let him walk free. Right?
Spitzer should be thanking his lucky stars that they didn't charge him with multiple counts of attempted homicide.
If people want to be DLKZ, be DLKZ on the victim who multiple people are saying is only acting for mercy form the court on his attempted killer because he got $2 million. I personally think it's more plausible that he understands this kid was a tool and was used. I'm not arguing against that part, but at the end of the day, he learned Torah and Gemara, which as I understand it lists out all the damages an arsonist is liable for, even if he didn't expect it to happen. He made a choice. He did the crime. Maybe others should be charged, but it doesn't exonerate him. If that were the case, no person in the mafia or a gang would go to jail because the higher-ups aren't being charged. |
seems like I was not clear enough.... never implied that he should walk away scott free.... someone who does something wrong, has to deal with the consequences. sometimes through a human court and sometimes through the hands of shamayim.
my point of irritation was that people were making ignorant comments w/o knowing what the issue was.... so I was clarrifying a few things for those who kept saying that they thought he should get a lifetime in jail etc...
btw, and the victim (Rottenberg) was going against the town and it's leader from day one.... Spitzer was a whole separate issue....
ps. I do not not have any doubts that the reason his sentence is so "light" (7 years vs. 25 plus) is because of the countless of tefillos that were said for him by his family and friends... and other people who know him and the whole situation on a very personal level |
So what???? New Square is not an absolute monarchy. New Square is part of the US of A, where freedom of religion is a constitutionally-guaranteed right. |
Are you farmiliar w/ how NS runs? it's more of a mix of a dictatorship & communism (and a bit of capitalism).... and township of RC and DA's office look the other way because of their block vote and money exchanged under the table... | I certainly hope you don't seriously believe that this helps your argument.
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Arcy
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Wed, Apr 18 2012, 12:17 am
...
Last edited by Arcy on Wed, Apr 18 2012, 12:56 am; edited 1 time in total
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Arcy
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Wed, Apr 18 2012, 12:22 am
| emesornt wrote: | | Arcy wrote: | | DrMom wrote: | | Arcy wrote: | | ElTam wrote: | So Arcy, given that it appears no one else will be charged, what should happen a person, old enough to get married, drive a car, and vote who went to someone's house in the middle of the night and tried to burn it down with a whole family inside and terribly injured the father of the family, this arsonist, he should walk away because of the "big picture"? Is that what you are arguing?
So what if the arsonist had been a home-schooled, brainwashed white supremacist neo-Nazi. Someone who lived in a closed community with a strong, charismatic leader who made people's life choices for them? There are certainly such groups in the United States. Let's say an 18 year old boy from one of those groups had gone and tried to burn down the house of a Jewish family, would you be making the same argument? I mean, it's a brainwashed boy who didn't know better who grew up in a sheltered environment, so hey, let's let him walk free. Right?
Spitzer should be thanking his lucky stars that they didn't charge him with multiple counts of attempted homicide.
If people want to be DLKZ, be DLKZ on the victim who multiple people are saying is only acting for mercy form the court on his attempted killer because he got $2 million. I personally think it's more plausible that he understands this kid was a tool and was used. I'm not arguing against that part, but at the end of the day, he learned Torah and Gemara, which as I understand it lists out all the damages an arsonist is liable for, even if he didn't expect it to happen. He made a choice. He did the crime. Maybe others should be charged, but it doesn't exonerate him. If that were the case, no person in the mafia or a gang would go to jail because the higher-ups aren't being charged. |
seems like I was not clear enough.... never implied that he should walk away scott free.... someone who does something wrong, has to deal with the consequences. sometimes through a human court and sometimes through the hands of shamayim.
my point of irritation was that people were making ignorant comments w/o knowing what the issue was.... so I was clarrifying a few things for those who kept saying that they thought he should get a lifetime in jail etc...
btw, and the victim (Rottenberg) was going against the town and it's leader from day one.... Spitzer was a whole separate issue....
ps. I do not not have any doubts that the reason his sentence is so "light" (7 years vs. 25 plus) is because of the countless of tefillos that were said for him by his family and friends... and other people who know him and the whole situation on a very personal level |
So what???? New Square is not an absolute monarchy. New Square is part of the US of A, where freedom of religion is a constitutionally-guaranteed right. |
Are you farmiliar w/ how NS runs? it's more of a mix of a dictatorship & communism (and a bit of capitalism).... and township of RC and DA's office look the other way because of their block vote and money exchanged under the table... | I certainly hope you don't seriously believe that this helps your argument. |
what argument?
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DrMom
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Wed, Apr 18 2012, 3:29 am
Arcy, your argument seems to be:
1. Shaul Spitzer should have gotten a light sentence because he was brainwashed, and is therefore not respoonsible for his actions.
2. Yeah, his sentence was light, but that's because so many wonderful people davened for him (and someone paid someone off).
3. The victim was defying the Grand Rebbe, so he had it coming to him.
4. Anyone who doesn't understand and accept 1-3 above is ignorant and has no right to comment on the situation.
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chani8
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Wed, Apr 18 2012, 3:53 am
| DrMom wrote: | Arcy, your argument seems to be:
1. Shaul Spitzer should have gotten a light sentence because he was brainwashed, and is therefore not respoonsible for his actions.
2. Yeah, his sentence was light, but that's because so many wonderful people davened for him (and someone paid someone off).
3. The victim was defying the Grand Rebbe, so he had it coming to him.
4. Anyone who doesn't understand and accept 1-3 above is ignorant and has no right to comment on the situation. |
Regarding number 4, I disagree. If the ignorant aren't given a forum to voice their ignorance, then how will they ever get the truth? And on imamother, everyone is allowed to have a voice, and we shouldn't shame others for not thinking clearly. And further, I am not sure Arcy is defending anyone, just stating the facts.
And those facts are troubling, that is for sure.
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Raisin
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Wed, Apr 18 2012, 5:06 am
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If rottenberg was such a trouble maker why didn't they just buy his house at a fair price and be well rid of him?????
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rainbow dash
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Wed, Apr 18 2012, 8:26 am
Judge Kelly of the New York Supreme Court declared during sentencing that “They the New Square leadership were encouraging him to do something,” Kelly said, referring to Shaul Spitzer’s comments in the probation report and noting they were never identified. “He would be the one to light the fire. He felt it was an heroic act to light the fire.”
The 18-year-old New Square man who severely burned a village dissident during an arson attack got sentenced to seven years in state prison on Tuesday after apologizing for trying to burn Aron Rottenberg’s family out of the Hasidic Jewish village.
The attack on Rottenberg and others for refusing to pray in the village synagogue and other activities raised how the Hasidic Jewish theocracy in New Square controls the lives of residents and deals, harshly at times, with those who choose not to follow the grand rabbi’s dictates.
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Levtov
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Wed, Apr 18 2012, 9:03 am
| sequoia wrote: | | abmom wrote: | | September June wrote: | | I wonder what they did/said to Rottenberg to make him suggest leniency. |
They gave him a million dollars. Another version said 2 million. |
Who has a million dollars lying around?! |
Rebbas!!!!!!!
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EmesOrNT
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Wed, Apr 18 2012, 10:07 am
| DrMom wrote: | Arcy, your argument seems to be:
1. Shaul Spitzer should have gotten a light sentence because he was brainwashed, and is therefore not respoonsible for his actions.
2. Yeah, his sentence was light, but that's because so many wonderful people davened for him (and someone paid someone off).
3. The victim was defying the Grand Rebbe, so he had it coming to him.
4. Anyone who doesn't understand and accept 1-3 above is ignorant and has no right to comment on the situation. |
Yes, that does seem to be the argument. I don't understand where the pity for the kid is even coming from. He's 18 years old. Grow a pair.
The fact that the community has politicians and lawmen looking the other way is a whole 'nother story. Sick, and unfortunate.
It's these kind of things that make me ashamed to be jewish.
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5S5Sr7z3
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Wed, Apr 18 2012, 11:26 am
| Arcy wrote: | | DrMom wrote: | | Arcy wrote: | | ElTam wrote: | So Arcy, given that it appears no one else will be charged, what should happen a person, old enough to get married, drive a car, and vote who went to someone's house in the middle of the night and tried to burn it down with a whole family inside and terribly injured the father of the family, this arsonist, he should walk away because of the "big picture"? Is that what you are arguing?
So what if the arsonist had been a home-schooled, brainwashed white supremacist neo-Nazi. Someone who lived in a closed community with a strong, charismatic leader who made people's life choices for them? There are certainly such groups in the United States. Let's say an 18 year old boy from one of those groups had gone and tried to burn down the house of a Jewish family, would you be making the same argument? I mean, it's a brainwashed boy who didn't know better who grew up in a sheltered environment, so hey, let's let him walk free. Right?
Spitzer should be thanking his lucky stars that they didn't charge him with multiple counts of attempted homicide.
If people want to be DLKZ, be DLKZ on the victim who multiple people are saying is only acting for mercy form the court on his attempted killer because he got $2 million. I personally think it's more plausible that he understands this kid was a tool and was used. I'm not arguing against that part, but at the end of the day, he learned Torah and Gemara, which as I understand it lists out all the damages an arsonist is liable for, even if he didn't expect it to happen. He made a choice. He did the crime. Maybe others should be charged, but it doesn't exonerate him. If that were the case, no person in the mafia or a gang would go to jail because the higher-ups aren't being charged. |
seems like I was not clear enough.... never implied that he should walk away scott free.... someone who does something wrong, has to deal with the consequences. sometimes through a human court and sometimes through the hands of shamayim.
my point of irritation was that people were making ignorant comments w/o knowing what the issue was.... so I was clarrifying a few things for those who kept saying that they thought he should get a lifetime in jail etc...
btw, and the victim (Rottenberg) was going against the town and it's leader from day one.... Spitzer was a whole separate issue....
ps. I do not not have any doubts that the reason his sentence is so "light" (7 years vs. 25 plus) is because of the countless of tefillos that were said for him by his family and friends... and other people who know him and the whole situation on a very personal level |
So what???? New Square is not an absolute monarchy. New Square is part of the US of A, where freedom of religion is a constitutionally-guaranteed right. |
Are you farmiliar w/ how NS runs? it's more of a mix of a dictatorship & communism (and a bit of capitalism).... and township of RC and DA's office look the other way because of their block vote and money exchanged under the table... |
I am extremely familiar (a bit TOO familiar) with how that place runs. Sorry, but it doesnt make that poor excuse of a 'rabbi' right, nor is Spitzer right. I can also think of many Communist and Absolute Monarchy countries that I am sure will be glad to host NS and then their town will be entirely legal
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5S5Sr7z3
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Wed, Apr 18 2012, 11:29 am
| Arcy wrote: | | ElTam wrote: | So Arcy, given that it appears no one else will be charged, what should happen a person, old enough to get married, drive a car, and vote who went to someone's house in the middle of the night and tried to burn it down with a whole family inside and terribly injured the father of the family, this arsonist, he should walk away because of the "big picture"? Is that what you are arguing?
So what if the arsonist had been a home-schooled, brainwashed white supremacist neo-Nazi. Someone who lived in a closed community with a strong, charismatic leader who made people's life choices for them? There are certainly such groups in the United States. Let's say an 18 year old boy from one of those groups had gone and tried to burn down the house of a Jewish family, would you be making the same argument? I mean, it's a brainwashed boy who didn't know better who grew up in a sheltered environment, so hey, let's let him walk free. Right?
Spitzer should be thanking his lucky stars that they didn't charge him with multiple counts of attempted homicide.
If people want to be DLKZ, be DLKZ on the victim who multiple people are saying is only acting for mercy form the court on his attempted killer because he got $2 million. I personally think it's more plausible that he understands this kid was a tool and was used. I'm not arguing against that part, but at the end of the day, he learned Torah and Gemara, which as I understand it lists out all the damages an arsonist is liable for, even if he didn't expect it to happen. He made a choice. He did the crime. Maybe others should be charged, but it doesn't exonerate him. If that were the case, no person in the mafia or a gang would go to jail because the higher-ups aren't being charged. |
seems like I was not clear enough.... never implied that he should walk away scott free.... someone who does something wrong, has to deal with the consequences. sometimes through a human court and sometimes through the hands of shamayim.
my point of irritation was that people were making ignorant comments w/o knowing what the issue was.... so I was clarrifying a few things for those who kept saying that they thought he should get a lifetime in jail etc...
btw, and the victim (Rottenberg) was going against the town and it's leader from day one.... Spitzer was a whole separate issue....
ps. I do not not have any doubts that the reason his sentence is so "light" (7 years vs. 25 plus) is because of the countless of tefillos that were said for him by his family and friends... and other people who know him and the whole situation on a very personal level |
Um, in case you weren't aware, that's not really possible, being that Rottenberg is a mere few years younger than the rabbi....
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5S5Sr7z3
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Wed, Apr 18 2012, 11:31 am
| Raisin wrote: | | If rottenberg was such a trouble maker why didn't they just buy his house at a fair price and be well rid of him????? |
A power struggle.
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