New Square Shaul Spitzer gets 7 years jail!!!!!!!!!!!

celestial

Wed, Apr 18 2012, 1:24 pm

black sheep wrote:

in order to illustrate a point here, I have to use an example. I will use the example of intimacy. intimacy can be the most beautiful, spiritual, uplifting experience. however, used incorrectly, it can become the most ugly, destructive force. I don't think I need to explain more than that on this board of mature adult women, but just to drive the point home, when a married woman sleeps with a man other than her husband, or a married man goes to various women and pays them for their services, this beautiful act has become defiled and disgusting, as they are using it incorrectly.

this is how I feel about rachmanus. rachmanus is a most beautiful middah. it is one of the middos that separates the jews from the other nations. however, used incorrectly, rachmanus can become the most disgusting and destructive thing on earth. that is what I'm feeling reading some of these posts. misplaced rachmanus isn't actually rachmanus at all; it is cruelty.

I still shudder when I remember how I felt last may, reading about a jewish boy who tried to murder another jewish family in their sleep. I couldn't sleep for days, haunted by thoughts of what could have happened, and how a jewish community and a jewish boy could have become murderers. and now again I am sickened by other jews trying to defend his actions.

Yes. 100% true and very well said.

spring13

Wed, Apr 18 2012, 3:57 pm

Is it considered normal in some circles for 18 year old boys to light people's homes on fire? Is attempted murder a common phenomenon among teenage boys? Cuz if it is, I know an awful lot of really abnormal guys...

Brainwashed or not, it's not as if the rest of the boys in NS were out there that night waving torches. One kid took it upon himself to do something so incredibly stupid and wrong. Does he have issues? Up the wazoo. Let him and his issues be handled away from the public, where he can't harm more innocent families.

This kind of thing is why when DH got a job not far from the area in question, we chose to live in a community that's a much farther commute away. I didn't want to live in the same COUNTY as these people.

GingerSpice

Wed, Apr 18 2012, 4:00 pm

celestial wrote:

black sheep wrote:

Yes. 100% true and very well said.

That was well put.
This story sickens me Sad

ally

Wed, Apr 18 2012, 4:10 pm

celestial wrote:

black sheep wrote:

Yes. 100% true and very well said.

He who becomes compassionate to the cruel will ultimately become cruel to the compassionate
-Tanhuma, Parashat Mezora,1; Yalkut Shimoni, I Samuel, Chapter 121.

5S5Sr7z3

Wed, Apr 18 2012, 5:01 pm

mazeltov wrote:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/New_Square_arson_attack

"According to residents of New Square, Spitzer is part of a network of up to 40 men and boys who defend the Grand Rabbi with intimidation and violence."

"On May 5, 2011 the home of another resident, Ari Austerlitz, burned down. The possibility of arson is being investigated in that incident as well"

Aftermath:

"On March 8, 2012 Rottenberg's car was torched"

The above incident happened just last month!! After all this, the violence continues!?

Is all of the above true?!?

All true.

Arcy

Wed, Apr 18 2012, 8:52 pm

DrMom wrote:

Arcy, your argument seems to be:

1. Shaul Spitzer should have gotten a light sentence because he was brainwashed, and is therefore not respoonsible for his actions.

2. Yeah, his sentence was light, but that's because so many wonderful people davened for him (and someone paid someone off).

3. The victim was defying the Grand Rebbe, so he had it coming to him.

4. Anyone who doesn't understand and accept 1-3 above is ignorant and has no right to comment on the situation.

WOW... ok, so first of, if any1 can possibly think that was my argument you clearnly have no clue who I am and what is stand for.... but that's ok, because we probably never met... I'm gonna make it very clear:

1. sptizer should most deffinetly get some sort of punishment for his actions because he has to deal with the concequense of his wrong doings. he is a bar daas and is responsible for his action. no1 forced him to do it.
1a. what his actual sentense should be I have no clue because I don't have a say or knowlege of how this stuff works.... my believe is just whatever he gets is what in the end Hashem wants him to get, Hashem is the judge, not me.

2. that wasn't an argument, that was just MY believe and theory. there is no factual basis to that statement.

3.LOL!! that one made me laugh.... in fact I think the opposite. I think the Grand rebbe himself should be begging the victiom for forgiveness and change a few things about how that community acts and behaves itself. I do not have respect for people who use our holy religion for thier personal benefit... just because A PERSON (THIS IS A GERNAL STATEMENT NOT DIRECTED TOWARDS ANY1 SPECIFIC) is a great talmid chacham and very learned does not mean he is a good person with good middos.

4. no idea where that came from....

dr mom I'd love to meet you someday... we'd have alot to talk about (saying this seriously, not bashing)

Arcy

Wed, Apr 18 2012, 9:02 pm

emesornt wrote:

DrMom wrote:

Yes, that does seem to be the argument. I don't understand where the pity for the kid is even coming from. He's 18 years old. Grow a pair.

The fact that the community has politicians and lawmen looking the other way is a whole 'nother story. Sick, and unfortunate.

It's these kind of things that make me ashamed to be jewish.

ok, just to clarrify I didn't realize I was ever "arguing" any points.... just expressing my opinon that I think the whole town of NS is corrup and that this 18 year old boy is just a prodegy of really bad envirment...

there is no Torah sourse to burning ppl who don't pray in a specific place... we all have bechira- free choice and we can choose to pray where we want... not to mention Rottenberg was doing a great chessed by daveing w/ the ppl in the rehab center. I know ppl who benefited greatly from his presents there.

as far as my "sympathy" for spitzer, I greatly pitty the fact that the investgation stopped with him. It's a pitty the investigagation on the town never went far.... (and of course the reason the FBI charges were 'officially' dropped has to do w/ $$$)

Arcy

Wed, Apr 18 2012, 9:06 pm

IYamWhoIYam wrote:

Arcy wrote:

ElTam wrote:

So Arcy, given that it appears no one else will be charged, what should happen a person, old enough to get married, drive a car, and vote who went to someone's house in the middle of the night and tried to burn it down with a whole family inside and terribly injured the father of the family, this arsonist, he should walk away because of the "big picture"? Is that what you are arguing?

So what if the arsonist had been a home-schooled, brainwashed white supremacist neo-Nazi. Someone who lived in a closed community with a strong, charismatic leader who made people's life choices for them? There are certainly such groups in the United States. Let's say an 18 year old boy from one of those groups had gone and tried to burn down the house of a Jewish family, would you be making the same argument? I mean, it's a brainwashed boy who didn't know better who grew up in a sheltered environment, so hey, let's let him walk free. Right?

Spitzer should be thanking his lucky stars that they didn't charge him with multiple counts of attempted homicide.

If people want to be DLKZ, be DLKZ on the victim who multiple people are saying is only acting for mercy form the court on his attempted killer because he got $2 million. I personally think it's more plausible that he understands this kid was a tool and was used. I'm not arguing against that part, but at the end of the day, he learned Torah and Gemara, which as I understand it lists out all the damages an arsonist is liable for, even if he didn't expect it to happen. He made a choice. He did the crime. Maybe others should be charged, but it doesn't exonerate him. If that were the case, no person in the mafia or a gang would go to jail because the higher-ups aren't being charged.

seems like I was not clear enough.... never implied that he should walk away scott free.... someone who does something wrong, has to deal with the consequences. sometimes through a human court and sometimes through the hands of shamayim.

my point of irritation was that people were making ignorant comments w/o knowing what the issue was.... so I was clarrifying a few things for those who kept saying that they thought he should get a lifetime in jail etc...

btw, and the victim (Rottenberg) was going against the town and it's leader from day one.... Spitzer was a whole separate issue....

ps. I do not not have any doubts that the reason his sentence is so "light" (7 years vs. 25 plus) is because of the countless of tefillos that were said for him by his family and friends... and other people who know him and the whole situation on a very personal level

Um, in case you weren't aware, that's not really possible, being that Rottenberg is a mere few years younger than the rabbi....

meant "day one" of the legal issues after the whole attack thing.

Arcy

Wed, Apr 18 2012, 9:17 pm

GetReal wrote:

No one disagrees that there is a bigger picture here and horrible things going on from higher up. But COME ON! To say that this is an innocent bachur being brainwashed is NUTS. A five year old understands that you don't burn down a house and kill a sleeping family. At 18 he is an adult. Tell me he is brainwashed to hate the family, maybe to throw things or spraypaint, and that is bad enough. but to set fire to a house with people inside? He is a danger to society and needs major help.

GetReal, how are 20-30 year old brainwashed to kill themselves and others for a holy mission??? at least Sptizer was not brainwashed to kill himslef....

if gown men and women can be brainwashed to kill themselves, why would you think that an 18 year old can't be brain wased to set a house on fire???? I doubt he had much for-thought to who was inside... (or any forthought period)

Arcy

Wed, Apr 18 2012, 9:17 pm

GetReal wrote:

Arcy

Wed, Apr 18 2012, 9:19 pm

mazeltov wrote:

clearly setting sptizer behind bars didn't help.... hashem yishmor.

eatingbagels

Thu, Apr 19 2012, 12:52 am

I agree with a lot of what Arcy is saying. I don't think we can compare our own children who are raised in healthy environments, to someone who was raised in what sounds like a cult.
It's very possible that Spitzer believed what he was doing was leshem shamayim, because he was brainwashed to believe so. Does that mean he shouldn't be accountable? NO. Because we need to have a system of law and order in place, to maintain peace and order.
But the investigation definitely should not have stopped at Spitzer.
I hope at the very least this serves as a message to the rest of the NS people that they are not above the law and that their rebbe will not be there to take responsibility when they go to prison to defend his gaavah.

Arcy

Thu, Apr 19 2012, 2:54 am

marina wrote:

All housing sales go through the Rebbe? So if I was an African American lady and I went on Zillow.com and I decided to pay an outrageous amount of money for the priviledge of living in the 10977 area code, and I contacted one of the listed real estate agents... she would do what? refuse to show me the house?

that happened recently.... a gentile got a house in NS district through the bank, (4 closed) and to put it very simply, they made their life a living hell, and in the end bought the house from them.....

they would offer you a lot of $$ and put you in a position where you'd just wanna get the hell out!!!!