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Forum
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-> Simcha Section
What do you do for DD's bat mitzva?
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| DD leins or leads service for women's tefilla group |
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8% |
[ 10 ] |
| DD gives dvar torah at a shul during the service |
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4% |
[ 5 ] |
| DD gives dvar torah after the service at social hall or at home |
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12% |
[ 15 ] |
| Nothing official at the shul, just DH gets an aliya |
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4% |
[ 5 ] |
| We don't do bat mitzva as such |
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69% |
[ 81 ] |
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| Total Votes : 116 |
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someoneoutthere
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 Fri, Aug 31 2012, 12:46 am
| shabbatiscoming wrote: | | chanamiriam wrote: | | Interesting because high school students must do 40 hours to graduate high school but most do hundreds of hours. And honestly, I don't think anyone feels pressured. People see how much more we accomplish when we have volunteers and they do it joyously. The feeling if satisfaction one gets is amazing. | Not all high schools have chessed hours that are required of the students. I know my high school did not have this.
I think it is a personality thing. I know some people who volunteer a LOT and some other people who never volunteer. Its a personal thing that each person decides if it is for them or not. |
This is government mandated community service hours. The jewish schools just direct it to chessed hours.
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someoneoutthere
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Fri, Aug 31 2012, 12:51 am
| chanamiriam wrote: | My daughter learned to leyn megillat rut and then did it in front of 200 women on shavuot.
I volunteer monthly to cook a complimentary shabbat lunch for our congregation, so we sponsored the tables of the extra guests which were about 130 and then also held a 'tish' for during the time she was reading and then after it was finished.
all in all, I fed about 600 people that day. She is so proud of herself for learning something that no one else in our community knows how to do (both people who knew recently moved away) and interestingly enough, apparently if no man knows how to do it she is actually allowed to do it in mixed company as long as she does it in a tzanua way. kol isha is not an issue if no man knows how to do it. guess we will see what happens next shavuot. actually trying to source the reference to a woman being able to do it if anyone knows. |
The halachos about a woman being allowed to read the megilla if no man knows how are regarding megillas esther, and don't refer to trope but to actual reading of the words. Since megillas esther must be read from a klaf written properly (unlike the other megillos which, although many do have a custom to use parchment, can be read straight from the printed book) and you need to be able to read hebrew.
Megillat Rut does not need to be read with a tune, so the absence of a man who knows the tune would not negate the issues of a woman leining in public.
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newmom770
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Fri, Aug 31 2012, 1:48 am
Didnt read all replies.
My first thought are: this sounds so reform.
We do nice dinner party for girls classmates at home she says a dvar torah during the meal in front of her family and friends. Sometimes the mother invites her women friends as well. Then there is an activity maybe an art activity or something and usually dancing. Nice and heimish
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Raisin
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Fri, Aug 31 2012, 5:15 am
I always wonder why bas mitzvas often involve chessed activities but bar mitzvas rarely seem to? Just curious for those whose daughters or themselves did a chessed project for their bas mitzva, did the boys in the family do the same thing?
(I have heard of bar mitzva boys giving some or all their gift money to tzedaka)
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shabbatiscoming
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Fri, Aug 31 2012, 5:29 am
| someoneoutthere wrote: | | shabbatiscoming wrote: | | chanamiriam wrote: | | Interesting because high school students must do 40 hours to graduate high school but most do hundreds of hours. And honestly, I don't think anyone feels pressured. People see how much more we accomplish when we have volunteers and they do it joyously. The feeling if satisfaction one gets is amazing. | Not all high schools have chessed hours that are required of the students. I know my high school did not have this.
I think it is a personality thing. I know some people who volunteer a LOT and some other people who never volunteer. Its a personal thing that each person decides if it is for them or not. |
This is government mandated community service hours. The jewish schools just direct it to chessed hours. | So then its a canadian thing. I went to school in the state of new york and never had to do this nor did my friends in new jersey.
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shabbatiscoming
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Fri, Aug 31 2012, 5:30 am
| newmom770 wrote: | Didnt read all replies.
My first thought are: this sounds so reform.
We do nice dinner party for girls classmates at home she says a dvar torah during the meal in front of her family and friends. Sometimes the mother invites her women friends as well. Then there is an activity maybe an art activity or something and usually dancing. Nice and heimish | What sounds so reform? A girl having a bat mitzvah party?
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Barbara
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Fri, Aug 31 2012, 5:56 am
| shabbatiscoming wrote: | | newmom770 wrote: | Didnt read all replies.
My first thought are: this sounds so reform.
We do nice dinner party for girls classmates at home she says a dvar torah during the meal in front of her family and friends. Sometimes the mother invites her women friends as well. Then there is an activity maybe an art activity or something and usually dancing. Nice and heimish | What sounds so reform? A girl having a bat mitzvah party? |
I don't know. A lot of people seem to think that "Reform" means not really paying attention to the deeper meaning of the ritual. That the bar/bat mitzvah isn't much more than an opportunity for a big party. without the need to learn or practice much Judaically. I don't agree; the Reform bnai mitzvah I've attended always include a demonstration of a lot of Jewish learning. But for people who see Reform that way, I suppose that a dinner at home for friends, an art activity and some dancing does sound awfully devoid of religious content, and much like a Reform bat mitzvah party. But she does say that there's a dvar Torah, so I'm not really sure why she would think that the party that she gives sounds "Reform."
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shalhevet
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Fri, Aug 31 2012, 6:09 am
| Barbara wrote: | | shabbatiscoming wrote: | | newmom770 wrote: | Didnt read all replies.
My first thought are: this sounds so reform.
We do nice dinner party for girls classmates at home she says a dvar torah during the meal in front of her family and friends. Sometimes the mother invites her women friends as well. Then there is an activity maybe an art activity or something and usually dancing. Nice and heimish | What sounds so reform? A girl having a bat mitzvah party? |
I don't know. A lot of people seem to think that "Reform" means not really paying attention to the deeper meaning of the ritual. That the bar/bat mitzvah isn't much more than an opportunity for a big party. without the need to learn or practice much Judaically. I don't agree; the Reform bnai mitzvah I've attended always include a demonstration of a lot of Jewish learning. But for people who see Reform that way, I suppose that a dinner at home for friends, an art activity and some dancing does sound awfully devoid of religious content, and much like a Reform bat mitzvah party. But she does say that there's a dvar Torah, so I'm not really sure why she would think that the party that she gives sounds "Reform." |
When someone has joy because of the actual occasion, there is no need to add 'content' to make it spiritual.
For example, when someone makes a bris for their son, they are joyous that they have a baby and are doing the mitzva of mila. They don't need the father of the baby to read from the Torah that morning to add 'content'. The bris is the content.
Ditto until recently, when people were happy that two Jews were getting married, they didn't need any other content - the joy of setting up a new home bikdusha v'tahara was enough of a reason for celebration. This is still true in many circles. But some circles, who feel the need to add extra 'content' show that the marriage itself is not a big enough source of joy.
If someone has joy that they (or their dd) is obligated to perform mitzvos, that is the joy, that is the content. You don't need to add 'content' or special one-time mitzvos to mark the occasion. The girl is celebrating that from today she will daven and say brochos and dress tzniusly and learn - until she is 120. The whole celebration is a celebration of mitzvos.
If someone doesn't plan on keeping mitzvos, there is no reason for the party. So now we have to look for 'religious content' to justify even having it.
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grace413
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Fri, Aug 31 2012, 7:06 am
[quote="shalhev]
If someone has joy that they (or their dd) is obligated to perform mitzvos, that is the joy, that is the content. You don't need to add 'content' or special one-time mitzvos to mark the occasion. The girl is celebrating that from today she will daven and say brochos and dress tzniusly and learn - until she is 120. The whole celebration is a celebration of mitzvos.
If someone doesn't plan on keeping mitzvos, there is no reason for the party. So now we have to look for 'religious content' to justify even having it.[/quote]
I agree that the point of the celebration is the person coming of age to keep mitzvot. That's why I object to people who think a boy should get a big party because he learned the leining and a girl shouldn't be she doesn't have to learn. The source of the celebration and happiness is equal for boys and girls regardless of what they actually do.
We sponsorsed kiddush lunch in shul for both DD and DS (this is the norm in our shul) and had nice diiners for both of them.
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Ruchel
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Fri, Aug 31 2012, 7:10 am
Forced chessed is not chessed, just the best way to hate chessed.
I'll never get America. I'm just sitting there wondering! 
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Zus
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Fri, Aug 31 2012, 7:27 am
| grace413 wrote: | | shalhevet wrote: |
If someone has joy that they (or their dd) is obligated to perform mitzvos, that is the joy, that is the content. You don't need to add 'content' or special one-time mitzvos to mark the occasion. The girl is celebrating that from today she will daven and say brochos and dress tzniusly and learn - until she is 120. The whole celebration is a celebration of mitzvos.
If someone doesn't plan on keeping mitzvos, there is no reason for the party. So now we have to look for 'religious content' to justify even having it. |
I agree that the point of the celebration is the person coming of age to keep mitzvot. That's why I object to people who think a boy should get a big party because he learned the leining and a girl shouldn't be she doesn't have to learn. The source of the celebration and happiness is equal for boys and girls regardless of what they actually do.
We sponsorsed kiddush lunch in shul for both DD and DS (this is the norm in our shul) and had nice diiners for both of them. |
Except for the fact that for the boy it's an actual seudat mitzvah if it's on his birthday. That's the big difference.
Last edited by Zus on Fri, Aug 31 2012, 7:57 am; edited 1 time in total
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saw50st8
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Fri, Aug 31 2012, 7:40 am
Shalhevet, are you trying to say that being mesameach a bride and groom with dancing and a meal is not in the Jewish spirit?
I think a dvar torah (along with the learning and prep for it) is a great way to show an understanding and commitment to accepting Torah umitzvot as a Jewish adult.
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gryp
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Fri, Aug 31 2012, 8:31 am
The dancing and meal is the celebration. We have a festive meal and many times dancing at almost every happy occasion. And divrei torah.
Why the need to find a way to add meaning to an occasion which already has meaning?
It's very nice to volunteer, do chessed, give tzedaka, etc but what does that have to do with a girl turning 12? And where does leining and leading davening come into the picture? Maybe that's what the poster before meant when she said it sounds reform.
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MaBelleVie
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Fri, Aug 31 2012, 9:18 am
| Raisin wrote: | I always wonder why bas mitzvas often involve chessed activities but bar mitzvas rarely seem to? Just curious for those whose daughters or themselves did a chessed project for their bas mitzva, did the boys in the family do the same thing?
(I have heard of bar mitzva boys giving some or all their gift money to tzedaka) |
Al shlosha dvarim haolam omed- many boys in my circle focus on limud Torah and make a siyum on all of mishnayos. Those who aren't as skilled in learning are more likely to so something else.
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MaBelleVie
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Fri, Aug 31 2012, 9:21 am
| gryp wrote: | The dancing and meal is the celebration. We have a festive meal and many times dancing at almost every happy occasion. And divrei torah.
Why the need to find a way to add meaning to an occasion which already has meaning?
It's very nice to volunteer, do chessed, give tzedaka, etc but what does that have to do with a girl turning 12? And where does leining and leading davening come into the picture? Maybe that's what the poster before meant when she said it sounds reform. |
Chesed, tzedaka- demonstrate a girl's excitement to do the mitzvot she is now mechyevet in. Can't really speak for the rest.
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cm
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Fri, Aug 31 2012, 5:31 pm
| gryp wrote: | The dancing and meal is the celebration. We have a festive meal and many times dancing at almost every happy occasion. And divrei torah.
Why the need to find a way to add meaning to an occasion which already has meaning?
It's very nice to volunteer, do chessed, give tzedaka, etc but what does that have to do with a girl turning 12? And where does leining and leading davening come into the picture? Maybe that's what the poster before meant when she said it sounds reform. |
What does volunteering and so on have to do with bat mitzvah? As I mentioned earlier, it is an opportunity for a bat mitzvah girl to step up and take her place as an adult in the Jewish community. Becoming bat mitzvah is about both personal mitzvot observance - my dd turned twelve right before a fast day, so she didn't need any projects to reinforce the point - as well as mitzvot bein adam v'chaveiro. Becoming involved at this point is a sort of kick-off event, as well as training for the future. BTW, dd didn't give a speech about her community service work; it's not about bragging or social pressure. She just did it for its own sake, because it was time.
For those who agree that women have a place leining and leading davening within halacha, why not take the first possible opportunity to demonstrate an adult skill? Once again, this is about participating in the community as an adult Jewish woman, taking on both obligations and opportunities to contribute. It seems clearly appropriate to a bat mitzvah celebration to me.
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sequoia
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Fri, Aug 31 2012, 5:45 pm
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It's not like bat mitzvah girls are leining or leading davening to be edgy and cool and different. It's normal in their community.
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amother
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Fri, Aug 31 2012, 6:27 pm
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My daughter and I did this.
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Ruchel
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Sat, Sep 01 2012, 6:17 pm
One can volunteer or do any mitzva before being a halachic adult.
Once one turns a halachic adult, one will do mitzvos just by living a Jewish life: a bracha, washing hands, saying shema, helping your mom clean up, whatever.
I still don't see why volunteering for a bat mitsva. But there are many American things I do not see.
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Isramom8
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Sat, Sep 01 2012, 6:21 pm
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I study something with the bat mitzvah girl, and she bases her dvar Torah on something meaningful she learned from it. We have one party with just her girl friends and a few of my women friends, and a separate party for family of both genders.
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