Urgent: Advice or Thoughts

Log in / Sign Up

List of Forums + New Post Recipe Box Usergroups Following My Posts Bookmarks

Private Messages Advanced Search Rules New User Guide FAQ Advertise Contact Us

Forum -> Parenting our children -> Teenagers and Older children

1 2 Next

View latest: 24h 48h 72h

amother

Thu, Oct 11 2012, 5:00 pm

My DS is a troubled boy with a long history. Aged 16. I have known for a while that he's going off the derech. Just didn't know the extent.

He doesnt live with me. He lives with his father. But sometimes he visits and I know that he lies alot but there's little I can do about it. He has a Facebook profile that is full of boys, girls, don't know what else. Loads of "friends" and he claims he hardly knows any of them.

DS is very good looking and I know that the girls are interested in him and he is interested in them.
Tonight he came to my town but said he's staying with a friend from yeshiva. His father evidently believed him. I just saw him briefly before he went. He left me no contact number but then his father has more responsibility over him than me. I assumed he knew all details.

Anyway, my dd, aged 18, just discovered that he is sleeping at a girl's house - probably with her. I just saw her Facebook profile and I can see she's not frum so it's highly likely.

I am saddened by this, but it comes as no surprise.

Anyway, dd called her father (I was in the room) and told him. She's now gone to get more information to find out where the girl lives and my ex is going to drive over there (which could take several hours).

First of all, some chizzuk please. As I said, my ds has been "bad news" for a while. He's a good kid, but he has a LOT of problems and not all related to Yiddishkeit. He's got a handsome face, but I dread him getting into relationships and not only because of the sleeping around aspect but also because I think he could be quite abusive. I tremble thinking about it all. And I pray that if he is doing anything that at least both of them are smart enough not to get her pg ...

Secondly, I don't know how wise it is for the ex (who won't discuss this with me anyway) to drive over there. It's like putting a band aid on a hemorrhage. This is a boy who lies so smoothly that it has horrified me over the years and who will do whatever he likes, whenever he likes, and however he likes.

So a big part of me throws my hands up in despair and says, "Is there anything to do here at all?" I don't know anything about this girl beyond her name and that she is very pretty on her FB profile and that she is not frum judging by the pics. She's probably around his age, which makes them "legal". So what's there to do anyway?

Any thoughts????

amother

Thu, Oct 11 2012, 5:09 pm

Hugs,

From what you write the only thing you can do is daven

My nephew went OTD, did everything and everything (he comes from a charedi home). He is now in his mid 20's and told me

"I want to have a home a family and I am frum now and I will be modern orthodox as I can't do the charedi lifestyle."

We are beyond thrilled because at one point he was very anti religious.

Have hope and keep communication open!!!

manyhats

Thu, Oct 11 2012, 5:11 pm

I think it is very good that his Dad is coming down. I don't have any advice to offer. Teenagers are notoriously difficult.
I think the literature says to always maintain an open door policy with family members. In that way children will feel their parent is available.

This situation is so distressing. Try to hang in there. It's not over yet. Hopefully , some day soon, you will be very proud of him.

amother

Thu, Oct 11 2012, 5:13 pm

The trouble is that he has so many problems. It's not so simple. I guess I'll sit on the sidelines at this point. Little else I can do. But I feel very tense ...

amother

Thu, Oct 11 2012, 5:22 pm

Perhaps I should be a bit clearer - he has violence problems. He also has personality problems. He's very handsome, very charming, but incurably dishonest.

When he was here over first days Sukkos, he stole my iPhone, hacked into the password, and used it in the middle of the night. I saw this afterwards because he had inadvertently clicked on a call and left it there and I know I wasn't calling anyone on Yom Tov at 3 am. He denied it and sounded so convincing - but then my suspicions were corroborated by his younger brother who said he knew he'd taken it ...

But it's the lying that gets me. I'd rather that if he was doing anything that at least he would tell the truth ...

manyhats

Thu, Oct 11 2012, 5:38 pm

The real world will deal with his violence and lying. He is in danger of losing friends and possibly getting in trouble with the law. When he hits rock bottom, hopefully he will make good choices.

This is a worse case scenario. I hope it never comes to this.

Your role? Stay calm. It's not your fault. Be there when he is ready to return.

Isramom8

Thu, Oct 11 2012, 5:40 pm

Try to prevent his becoming a father, because then he may have legal troubles on top of everything else. If he is being intimate then he should be encouraged to make sure pregnancies are prevented.

Try to get him to feel safe being open with you, so that you can make sure that he is safe, from drugs, from homelessness, from poverty, from STDs, from depression, from self harm.

Can you get him involved with a social worker or therapist?

amother

Thu, Oct 11 2012, 5:44 pm

For various reasons that I would rather not give, he is already involved with social services. And I don't think they're going to like it. ....

Father's getting ready to come down on the warpath. I just hope it will do some good. But I really can't be sure.

Isramom8

Thu, Oct 11 2012, 5:50 pm

He needs help if he is this out of control. Any "war" should be accompanied by the clear explanation that the point is for his own good.

Barbara

Thu, Oct 11 2012, 5:55 pm

Take a deep breath. Calm down.

First things first. Not every non-frum 16 year old girl is having relations. Where does she live? Has anyone contacted her parents? Not to say "your little hussy of a daughter ...." but to say "I hear that my son will be spending a few days (?) at your home. I want to make sure that's OK with you, and talk about ...." basically parental supervision, but you need to put it in your own words.

But fact is, if he's sleeping with her, it doesn't matter if he spends the night or finds an empty restroom at 2 pm. Someone needs to talk to him about protecting himself and his partner.

lulabelle

Thu, Oct 11 2012, 6:46 pm

Ok, so I've worked with kids like yours before. First things first. You said your ex is on the warpath...get him off it! Seriously! Your kid is not going to be cowed into not sleeping around, taking drugs, drinking, partying, or whatever else it is he's doing. Get your ex to back off. Here's something you need to understand. As painful as this will be to accept, you no longer have control of your son. He is not operating within your framework and therefore there is nothing you can do to control him. He's on a path he'll need to take himself, and reach whatever conclusion he reaches.

You can however be there for him when he needs you, love him unconditionally, support him always, and make it very clear that no matter what he does or who he does it with you will always love him. Don't lecture him about frumkeit, don't guilt trip him, don't pine over the days when he used to be a perfect son, just accept him for who he is now and love him as much as you can. Make sure he feels it. Chances are he's not going to respond positively to you regardless of how you treat him, but trust me, if he ever decided to turn his life around he will remember the people who loved him and cared about him and he'll know where to go.

Loving him unconditionally does not mean that you capitulate to him. You can have rules about things as long as they are not punitive. Meaning, you do not want chillul shabbos in the house. You can enforce that rule as well, however you do not want chillul shabbos in your house because it is a frum house and you do not like it. NOT because he's a bad person for being mechallel shabbos. You can't make it judgmental, sanctimonious, or a battle. You have rules because you have rules. Not because he is a bad person who needs to be controlled. It does not mean buying him off either.

As for sleeping around? Nothing you can do about that. If he wants to he will. If he'll listen suggest protection and birth control. You don't want him getting an STD or getting a girl pregnant. Trust me. As for his other problems, violent tendencies, etc. You mention he's a liar. Ever consider that he may be a liar because he feels he needs to? He wants to be mechallel shabbos and you judge him for that therefore he lies. Etc. I'm not saying you're wrong for disapproving of chillul shabbos, I'm just explaining that before you label him as someone incapable of calling the sky blue, try understanding why he's lying.

About the violence...that's a very serious concern. Again though that needs to be handled with love. Violence is never solved with violence. He will need therapy for that, no question. Also, this question really does need to be asked, has your son ever been s-xually abused, and if so, was he ever treated for it?

I'm so sorry for what you and your family are going through, but please keep strong, pray as hard as you can, and love your son. With God's help he'll find his way.

amother

Thu, Oct 11 2012, 6:54 pm

I'm afraid I recognize the diagnosis and it's horrible if it is what I think it is. What we all can do is give you a virtual but a tight hug and hope he won't get you and himself into trouble! Hug

amother

Thu, Oct 11 2012, 7:05 pm

Barbara, I'm not the OP, but I find your comment to be insensitive.

OP - ::hugs:: my heart goes out to you. Sounds like a very tough situation. I don't have teenagers yet, but I know that many parents deal with similar heartaches and have turned to Rabbi Zecharia Wallerstein for help. He deals a lot with OTD teenagers.
No guarantees, but perhaps it's worth it for you to contact him, tell him the scenario, and get his opinion.

Stay strong...daven to HaShem that your son should be on the right track, and try to find the positive qualities in him...his strengths, even though it might not be easy.
Wishing you a lot of hatzlacha.

greenfire

Thu, Oct 11 2012, 7:33 pm

yeah sure one likes to think it's not happening yet someone that age who is showing certain signs of sneaking around should be taught how easy even teens can suddenly become parents-to-be ... simply put ~ they need birth control

as for the father going on a war path ... perhaps that is where your son gets his anger ... so not a good idea ~ maybe he should think beforehand and call or text him something that will be more nurturing - after all that is what he seems to need right now & you can call him as well with a good word or 2 - even if it's just 'I hope you are being safe & I love you'

don't ask your son if the kid used the phone & don't ask your daughter to make the call to his father ~ please try to keep your other kids out of this ~ they do not need the stress on their young shoulders

sorry you're going through this ~ it's not easy for parents to watch as their children slip away from our ideals Hug

emunahdoj

Fri, Oct 12 2012, 1:55 am

lullabelle-Wow. I am so impressed with what you wrote. I know in theory that this non judgmental and unconditional love is the way to be but how do you put it in to practice?

lulabelle

Fri, Oct 12 2012, 4:16 am

I find that a lot of judgement comes from anger, of one sort or another. Meaning when you judge someone you do it because they upset you for some reason, they bother you, and therefore you make yourself feel better by putting them down in your mind. Mind you, that's not judgmental, just pay attention the next time you judge someone. It's just how things work. Instead of looking at him and seeing a mechallel shabbos who has s*x out of wedlock, ask yourself what's causing it. Try to identify with whatever it is that drives him. Empathize with whatever pain is causing it.

That way you can love instead of judging, or feeling anger, frustration, or anything else that gets in the way, because you know that despite the state he's in right now, he's still your son, still the same person you loved when he was frum, just being temporarily paused due to circumstance. It's really hard because that's not a person's natural response when they see something they hold very dear, namely religion, being so brazenly flouted by someone who, by all rights, should do what you want by dint of the fact that you brought him into the world and bled and sweated to give him a good life, but you need to look past all that.

You can disapprove, but always love him. Always remember that he's your son and that nothing can change that, and that no matter what he does you will always be a mother to him. He may throw it back in your face, yell at you, show anger, curse you, spit at you, and constantly disobey you, but just keep in mind that when the time comes and he decides to change his life, he'll remember who loved him, and you'll be the one he turns to.

By the way, in which area do you live? There may be some places in the area he'd be interested in who could help him.

chani8

Fri, Oct 12 2012, 5:23 am

To help my DH with our 17yo son who is struggling, I tell him, stop caring so much. What does it matter what he does? Stop taking it so personally.

But to OP, I'd add, make sure he has all the info. As a mother of a worldly son, start being very honest about everything. I talk to my son about zex, women, religion, mental health, physical health, child abuse (ever asked him if he was abused?). Everything and anything. I am not that open with all my kids, but with him, I am 100% available and non-judgmental.

Some kids tell sheker because they are constantly being questioned, judged, controlled. Stop questioning and look the other way. Accept him. Empower him. Get to know him as a person. What does he think about, like to do, want to do. It sounds like you've got no relationship with him, none of you, and that is very sad.

Not that building a relationship is so easy with an angry teen. But try. I'm trying hard to build with my teen. It is so difficult, but if not us, who? Who else do these kids have? I take comfort in the fact that my son will ask me if he can go places. He still acknowledges that we have a mother/son relationship. If he didn't care at all about me, he would just walk out the door. In your case, he feels he has to lie to you. Getting him to trust you enough to tell you what he is doing, should be your goal. Maybe he lies because he feels he is bad, doing bad things, and that you would freak if he was honest, and told you what he was doing. Going to sleep with a girl is not the end of the world. It doesn't make him evil or bad. It makes him, well, normal. Not so frum, but normal. Be thankful he likes girls. I know I was relieved about that, after my DS was molested several times.

Your DS should know that he can tell you anything, and you will just say, "Ok." I have added at times, when my son is walking out the door to go do something that makes me nervous, "I trust you to make responsible choices, but if anything goes wrong, if you need me, any time, day or night, any where, I'll come get you."

amother

Sun, Oct 14 2012, 4:10 pm

Don't want to and can't give away too many details because I don't want to be outed. But the pain is so great in this story.

DS is already under surveillance for various deep reasons.

He's dug a huge pit for himself now. He denies sleeping with the girl, but we have evidence that he did. Now it emerges that he stole the credit card of someone who let him sleep in his house (without us knowing) when his family was away.

My ds is so charming, so sweet on the outside, but he has been diagnosed with a developing personality disorder, a violence problem, and is a chronic liar and steals. So sad. Only sixteen years old and on such a downward spiral.

Sometimes I wonder if there is any hope left for him, even though he is so young.

And yes I love my ds very much, but I am also very scared of him.

Isramom8

Sun, Oct 14 2012, 6:22 pm

There is definitely hope! Flower

16 is, like, the absolute worst age. Kids have power without having maturity. In a year or two your son could very likely gain more maturity to WANT to get control over himself. I've seen this happen. It's a process. Lots of out of control kids bloom late, and go on to lead stable, productive lives.

They have to grow into wanting it. No one can make it happen for them.

imasinger

Sun, Oct 14 2012, 7:54 pm

I love what lulabelle has to say. It is worth reading and re-reading.

This situation sounds particularly challenging because the OP doesn't have custody, nor much control. OP, if I were in your shoes, I'd be agonizing over if things would have been any different were my DS able to be with me instead of the ex.

It is awful enough to feel helpless when a kid starts doing bad things. It is worse when you don't even have control over his environment. Either way, knowing that he is lying and can be violent is scary. If you aren't already doing so, counseling may be helpful to be sure that you are taking care of yourself adequately so that you can deal with these tensions without becoming overwhelmed.

What else do you value about him besides his looks and his surface charm? Is he the type to get excited about something that interests him? Is he well organized? Is he interesting to talk to on some number of topics? Thinking about the things that make you proud might help you to retain those loving feelings at times when he does something dumb or dangerous.

Hatzlacha!

Page 1 of 2

1 2 Next