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-> Parenting our children
-> Preschoolers
bigsis144
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 Mon, Nov 26 2012, 1:26 pm
My bright, rambunctious DS just turned 3, but doesn't seem to get the concept of rewards, especially the delayed gratification part.
In order for the the prize to be "real", he has to see it, but once he sees it, he doesn't understand having to wait for it.
For example: I've tried sticker charts for things like potty training or sleeping in his own bed all night. Promising a sticker on the chart in the morning is too theoretical at bedtime to mean anything; if he ends up doing the right thing and I put the sticker on the chart, he doesn't want it on the chart -- he wants the sticker on his shirt, or his nose, or a whole sheet of stickers to play with.
So forget abstract concepts like charts -- even if it's as direct as "if you sleep in your room all night, you get a matchbox car in the morning", the delayed gratification is NOT working.
So again, rather than promising him a reward to encourage the good behavior, I would only give him a reward after he'd "accidentally" done what I wanted. And he'd remember that he got his new matchbox car for sleeping in his room last night, and tell that proudly to everyone in earshot ("I earned it!"), but wouldn't see that as any reason to sleep in his room tonight.
He can get really manipulative and insistent about getting his prizes too -- he'll go into his room for half an hour in the middle of the day and say, "I slept in my room! I want my tow truck now!" and no matter how many times I explain it to him, he'll keep insisting that he should get his tow truck NOW, to the extent that he'll start sobbing and throwing tantrums as if I'd taken away something that already belonged to him.
Is this a developmental thing that DS just hasn't reached yet? When should I expect him to be able to understand rewards?
DS is my oldest, so I have no idea what to expect at this age, and I'm at my wits end trying to figure out how to work with him on the "big" things.
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imasinger
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Mon, Nov 26 2012, 1:38 pm
You might want to try tokens instead of stickers. Sometimes, dropping something into a box can help them understand, especially if you count the tokens together regularly and remind how long till a prize.
Good luck!
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Hashemlovesme
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Mon, Nov 26 2012, 1:52 pm
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I only started w/ that at age 4, but others have started younger. depends on the child. start w/ a small #, like 3, & work your way up.
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amother
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Mon, Nov 26 2012, 2:41 pm
I have a kid like this. its not the age, though he may still grow into the concept of delayed gratification.
what I did for my kid that goes against any parenting advice you've ever heard is give the reward first then expect the behavior.
basically say I'm giving you a car tonight b/c you are going to sleep in your bed nicely. this also gives you the option of taking away the car if he doesnt listen.
my dc always needed the prize first then would listen perfectly to whatever I wanted.
I dont know why this is, but I have learned to work with it instead of against it.
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yo'ma
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Mon, Nov 26 2012, 2:52 pm
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Like others have said, it depends on the child, but there's a difference between 3 and 3 1/2 and older. I don't know exactly how old your ds is, but maybe you have to wait a few months to try the chart out.
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ElTam
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Mon, Nov 26 2012, 2:56 pm
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My 3 y.o. does not. For him, it has to be right now. We use small candies, like Mike & Ikes.
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Dolly Welsh
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Mon, Nov 26 2012, 4:18 pm
I am not sure this is such a great system, this rewards thing. I mean, the kid should do what he should do, and eventually, he will. In time he will be potty trained and sleep in his own bed. Heck. In time he will sleep in another state.
Why create a system for him to try to game?
Life isn't like that. You do what you do because you do.
If he gets the idea that good behavior 1) is always rewarded, and 2) you don't have to do what you aren't tangibly paid to do, what happens when he discovers that neither of those things is true?
Of course he's manipulative. I would be too, in that situation. It gives his relationship with you a weird commercial character, when you're family. Just MHO.
If he is shown repeatedly what you want him to do, and if he cares what you think, then, along the developmental curve, he will eventually do it. You really can't hurry that. You really can't hurry his ability to do what you want. Developmental is developmental. Sometimes time just has to pass.
I am not sure a sugar addiction is anything to encourage, although I love sweets too.
Your expectations have tremendous power, when made clear consistently, simply and often.
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MaBelleVie
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Mon, Nov 26 2012, 4:27 pm
Three is definitely the age they should begin grasping this concept. Begin by rewarding immediately after a short task is completed. Once he gets that, move on to longer tasks or overnight- ie if you stay in your bed when its time to sleep, you'll get something special in the morning. Charts will come later. It's unusual for a three yr old to comply with charts.
Dolly, with all due respect, I think you've been out of the toddler game for a little too long  just about every toddler I've come across requires some sort of external motivation to get an undesired job done. If you wait until internal motivation kicks in, you will have a very spoiled little child on your hands to untrain.
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718
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Mon, Nov 26 2012, 5:47 pm
| imasinger wrote: | You might want to try tokens instead of stickers. Sometimes, dropping something into a box can help them understand, especially if you count the tokens together regularly and remind how long till a prize.
Good luck! |
Interesting idea... thanks.
Ds is the same way and didnt outgrow it at 6. The momentum wears off after a day or so. I just cant get this system to work. Therefore I dont use it that much.
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bamamama
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Mon, Nov 26 2012, 7:11 pm
None of my kids performed for rewards at 3 so I stopped even trying with it. We manage fine without. I also think asking a 3-year-old to stay in his own bed in his own room all night without needing a parent at some point is asking way too much.
ETA: the big things come in their own time. If you pay attention to what he's telling you (verbally and not), you'll recognize signs of readiness. There's no need to push the "big things".
Last edited by bamamama on Mon, Nov 26 2012, 7:15 pm; edited 1 time in total
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bamamama
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Mon, Nov 26 2012, 7:12 pm
| MaBelleVie wrote: | Three is definitely the age they should begin grasping this concept. Begin by rewarding immediately after a short task is completed. Once he gets that, move on to longer tasks or overnight- ie if you stay in your bed when its time to sleep, you'll get something special in the morning. Charts will come later. It's unusual for a three yr old to comply with charts.
Dolly, with all due respect, I think you've been out of the toddler game for a little too long just about every toddler I've come across requires some sort of external motivation to get an undesired job done. If you wait until internal motivation kicks in, you will have a very spoiled little child on your hands to untrain. |
There are ways to get to internal motivation which don't involve material rewards.
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sky
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Mon, Nov 26 2012, 7:54 pm
At 3 my oldest could not handle charts - they made him so nervous\stressed. Instant worked best when possible. Even with going to sleep - if it was at a time period that I needed motivation - I would say there are 5 chocolate chips on the table. Each time you come out of bed (other then to use the bathroom) I'm taking one away. As soon as you wake up you can have it. This way he already had them. [My kids are fine going to sleep by themselves in their room at 3 - I do come when called and don't penalize for that]
for potty training it had to be instant. None of my kids understood waiting. So instead of a sticker going on a chart and building up, the sticker just went on them, and they were happy with that.
He is now 6, but he still does better with instant but can handle charts.
My second son did better with charts at a younger age and I think it was because he saw his older brother doing it, or it could just be personality.
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Fabulous
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Mon, Nov 26 2012, 7:59 pm
yeah, the chart thing is hard for that age often.
What worked for ds in terms of toilet training: In beginning instant, got a candy or a treat or a prize etc... right after he made in the toilet and a small speech if he had an accident.
As he totally understood it more, we slowly took the rewards away. THEN, he started having a TON of accidents. For a few days, we promised him a lolly AT THE END of the day if he went all day with no accidents. Two days no accident - lolly, one day accident - no lolly. Another couple days no accident - lolly. After less then a week he basically didn't have accidents any more (occasional dirty when he is not comfortable I.e. school or with babysitter). We also kept reminding him (and I told his morah to do the same) that he will get a lolly at the end of the day if he makes only in the toilet.
ETA: after that week, no more lollies either.
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MaBelleVie
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Mon, Nov 26 2012, 8:30 pm
| bamamama wrote: | | MaBelleVie wrote: | Three is definitely the age they should begin grasping this concept. Begin by rewarding immediately after a short task is completed. Once he gets that, move on to longer tasks or overnight- ie if you stay in your bed when its time to sleep, you'll get something special in the morning. Charts will come later. It's unusual for a three yr old to comply with charts.
Dolly, with all due respect, I think you've been out of the toddler game for a little too long just about every toddler I've come across requires some sort of external motivation to get an undesired job done. If you wait until internal motivation kicks in, you will have a very spoiled little child on your hands to untrain. |
There are ways to get to internal motivation which don't involve material rewards. |
Can you elaborate?
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bigsis144
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Mon, Nov 26 2012, 9:31 pm
| bamamama wrote: | None of my kids performed for rewards at 3 so I stopped even trying with it. We manage fine without. I also think asking a 3-year-old to stay in his own bed in his own room all night without needing a parent at some point is asking way too much.
ETA: the big things come in their own time. If you pay attention to what he's telling you (verbally and not), you'll recognize signs of readiness. There's no need to push the "big things". |
I'm fine with going into DS's room a bunch of times over the course of the night, so that's not it.
We moved within the past two months, and finally had space for DS to have his own room -- until then, he'd been sleeping in the same room as DH and me. Understandably, though, the upheaval of the move made him more clingy, and I was very lax about letting him in my room, sometimes not even trying to get him into his own bed at bedtime because it was SO much easier that way, and my life was crazy enough already.
Now I'm really trying to work on getting him out of my room -- I'm having a baby soon, and only have room for one kid at a time in there.
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bamamama
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Tue, Nov 27 2012, 12:04 am
| MaBelleVie wrote: | | bamamama wrote: | | MaBelleVie wrote: | Three is definitely the age they should begin grasping this concept. Begin by rewarding immediately after a short task is completed. Once he gets that, move on to longer tasks or overnight- ie if you stay in your bed when its time to sleep, you'll get something special in the morning. Charts will come later. It's unusual for a three yr old to comply with charts.
Dolly, with all due respect, I think you've been out of the toddler game for a little too long just about every toddler I've come across requires some sort of external motivation to get an undesired job done. If you wait until internal motivation kicks in, you will have a very spoiled little child on your hands to untrain. |
There are ways to get to internal motivation which don't involve material rewards. |
Can you elaborate? |
Lemme see if I can explain in the least ham-handed way possible. I teach my kids how to deal with life. For example, I might (*might*) finish the dishes with the idea that I'll sit down after I'm done to watch a show. Another example, tonight before bed, we cleaned up the living room. Before we started, I told the kids that we were going to all tidy together and then sit and have stories. As much as they could, my youngest 3 helped (all under 5). In fact, my 4 year old finished the last 10 items on the floor himself without my asking as a "surprise" for me (I had gone out of the room to throw some things in the recycling).
You could look at this as a question of semantics - I reward myself with a show, I reward the kids with storytime. But I think that's missing the point. Life works just this way - in order to get through the tedious, we look forward to the fun - meaningful fun. This is partly what I want my kids to know (in addition to the satisfaction of a job well done - even a tedious one). I seldom reward directly with stickers/other treats.
Beyond the semantics, though, it is a question of relationship. If they are connected with you and the task is within their capability, they will do it with minimal coercion from you. That's not to say I never have to coerce...but when I do, I see it as a problem with our relationship - I need to go back and, as Gordon Neufeld puts it "Collect before you direct". I really can't recommend his stuff highly enough. I see amazing, amazing things out of my kids when I'm present with them and connected to them.
On the topic of potty training, I firmly believe that it is almost no effort at all to train most kids but you MUST wait until they are ready. I've never spent more than 4 days potty training and that was because I had to help one ds work through some fear about pooping in the big potty. My other kids trained themselves virtually overnight (at ages 2y1m and 2y3m) on their own because they were ready. I was just the support staff.
As to the bedtime question, OP, it sounds like you're doing the best you can in a rough situation. I don't think rewards in the morning will be super helpful when he's scared and lonely in the middle of the night. The only thing that will solve that is your presence and it sounds like you are responsive to his needs. He's just going to continue to need night time parenting for a while. I have one dd who, at 3, sleeps through without a problem but I have a 4-year-old ds who really needs reassurance and my DH's presence a lot at night. Different kids.
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chani8
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Tue, Nov 27 2012, 2:46 am
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Some kids not only don't get the sticker reward thing, they hate it and feel manipulated by it.
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MaBelleVie
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Tue, Nov 27 2012, 8:47 am
Ok, bama, I think for the most part we are on the same page. I tend to reward with fun activities for the most part too (or parental attention in some form).
However, certain behaviors need more than that. For example, I want to put the baby to sleep. Toddler ds is driving his car loudly up and down the hallway. I offer x fun activity in exchange for him playing something quiet while I put the baby to sleep. He refuses. I try again, make it sound even more enticing. He refuses. What do I do? My options are:
1. Let him continue his activity, baby will be hysterical from lack of sleep.
2. Take away his car and listen to him tantrum. Baby will be hysterical from lack of sleep.
3. Suddenly remember that I have something VERY SPECIAL for him! A special chocolate chip for a boy who listens to mommy and plays quietly while his sister goes to sleep! Voila, the car disappears, he begins a quiet activity, and life goes on.
What would you do? If there are better options, I would love to know about them.
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Merrymom
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Tue, Nov 27 2012, 9:12 am
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A three year old is a baby. They don't need prizes at that age, just alot of positive feedback ("Who's the best boy in the world?!!.....kiss kiss hug hug).
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MaBelleVie
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Tue, Nov 27 2012, 9:16 am
| Merrymom wrote: | | A three year old is a baby. They don't need prizes at that age, just alot of positive feedback ("Who's the best boy in the world?!!.....kiss kiss hug hug). |
I do that all the time. It has never motivated my ds to do something he's not interested in.
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