Friend being mechallel shabbos

amother

Sun, Dec 02 2012, 10:35 pm

I went to visit my friend this past shabbos abd on my way out I saw her pick up her cell phone and check the screen for texts, emails...
I am really upset about this. Of course I didn't say anything to her.
How can I be dan likaf zechus her? Its sooo hard?

Merrymom

Sun, Dec 02 2012, 10:52 pm

Why of course? I would definitely have asked if she considers herself shomer shabbos, and how I could eat by her house anymore, since if she's not shomer shabbos anymore, she's probably not shomer kashrus anymore either.

OOTforlife

Sun, Dec 02 2012, 11:04 pm

Ditto the pikuach nefesh possibility. Also, did she press buttons or just pick up the phone to look at the screen? If the latter, then it's still not right but at least it wouldn't be a d'oraisa (I think?) and maybe she is just isn't aware about all the muktza rules. A lot of people aren't.

That was my best shot.

amother

Sun, Dec 02 2012, 11:14 pm

I have a heter to carry my cell phone on Shabbos because the work I do involves pikuach nefesh . Can you be sure there is no possibility of pikuach nefesh? Be Dan Adam lekaf zechus.

33055

Mon, Dec 03 2012, 12:16 am

amother wrote:

I was on the way out and I turned around to check on one of my kids and I saw her holding her phone.

Did you see her pressing any buttons. It seems strange she couldn't wait for you to leave completely before she checked her messages.

bamamama

Mon, Dec 03 2012, 1:28 am

MaBelleVie wrote:

Maybe its a non-functioning phone and she was using the screen as a mirror.

Hey! You're pretty good at this! Very Happy

(Note to self: see MBV if I'm struggling to be DLKZ someone and can't come up with anything...)

zaq

Mon, Dec 03 2012, 9:10 am

Her phone may have been lying around and she was moving it out of the way. Sure she should have used a shinuy but that's a long way from concluding that a person is no longer shomer shabbos. Even if your friend really was reading messages and it wasn't a pikuach nefesh situation, she may have been misled by someone who told her that this is acceptable. There is a whole body of urban- myth "halacha" that texting is doable on Shabbos, and a person who isn't so knowledgeable herself may get taken in by it.

As for not being shomer shabbos equating with being tref, that's not necessarily true. Kashrus is usually the first thing people pick up when they become frum, and the last thing they give up when they go OTD. being Shomer Shabbos and tref is pretty rare; being kosher but not Shomer Shabbos is much less so. Halachically we assume that aperson who is no shomer shabbos can't be trusted for kashrus, either, and in all likelihood a person who is overtly mechalel Shabbos is not going to be very strict about kashrus, but that doesn't mean they're chazzer tref.

grin

Mon, Dec 03 2012, 9:43 am

some people use their phones instead of a watch, to check the time. btw, if you didn't clearly see her pushing any buttons, the worst she did was being oiver muktza, certainly not on a par with big avieros.

Barbara

Mon, Dec 03 2012, 10:07 am

grin wrote:

Doesn't the screen usually go blank after a few minutes?

But there's lots of other reasons it could have happened. I know people who have permission to use cell phones to calculate insulin dosage or other medication needs, for example. Or, honestly, it could be one of those unthinking reaction oh-sheesh-I-can't-believe-I-did-that things. Haven't you ever turned off the bathroom light by mistake? Or reached up and turned something on then realized YIKES, shouldn't have done that. Or am I the only one who makes mistakes?

amother

Mon, Dec 03 2012, 10:11 am

Merrymom wrote:

Whoa, big stretch!

I have a relative who struggles with Shemiras Shabbos. We were told that if someone is Shomer Shabbos B'farhesiyah - in public - you don't make other assumptions about them.

But ask your own LOR.

EmesOrNT

Mon, Dec 03 2012, 10:19 am

amother wrote:

Merrymom wrote:

Well that went out the window when she picked up the phone. In front of someone.

zaq

Mon, Dec 03 2012, 10:21 am

EmesOrNT wrote:

amother wrote:

Merrymom wrote:

Well that went out the window when she picked up the phone. In front of someone.

OP said she was on the way out. The friend may not have realized she saw.