Chris tmas, Chinese food and Jews Outside the USA

PinkFridge

Wed, Dec 26 2012, 8:24 am

shalhevet wrote:

I find it pretty disturbing that frum Jews would do anything to mark a day celebrating something which has led to the murder and suffering of millions of Jews over the centuries.

It is sobering. We live an age where we can trade chumra jokes, laugh at GCFL and gentiles laughing at themselves (today's offering, what to do with a fruitcake). Yet a few weeks ago Rabbi Shmuel Bloom commented in Yated that there is a concept of lighting menorah inside because of sakana, and how we can't forget we're in galus.

So I think we can be grateful for living in this age, and yes, take advantage of the sales too, but not lose sight of our historical realities and that things can turn on a dime.

moonstone

Wed, Dec 26 2012, 11:22 am

DrMom wrote:

shalhevet wrote:

I find it pretty disturbing that frum Jews would do anything to mark a day celebrating something which has led to the murder and suffering of millions of Jews over the centuries.

Lighten up!

Jews are not "celebrating x-mas" by going out for Chinese food and a movie.

It's more like: We have the day off for a random holiday we don't celebrate. Let's finds something fun to do with our day off other than sit home and watch the Yule Log on TV."

Since most businesses -- other than Chinese restaurants and movie theaters -- are closed, this became the default activity.

So you go out to Hu Wang Palace -- and find that it's packed with Jews! Chinese restaurants became sort of a "religious expatriate" hangout on xmas day for Jews (at least those who didn't keep kosher). It evolved into a great way to get together with other Jewish folks.

Kind of like the "Matzah Ball" Jewish singles events held on xmas eve. They don't "celebrate xmas" any more than Chinese+movie celebratres xmas. They just take advantage of the fact that it's a day off and we Jews have nothing to celebrate on that day, and almost everything else is closed, so let's do something fun together with other yidden in the same situation!

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/M.....vents

I was surprised to see that this thread was 5 pages long- and now I see it's because some people are upset that Jews eat Chinese and watch movies on x-mas! Seriously? Some of you really need to lighten up. It's just something people do for fun, they aren't "celebrating" the birth of you-know-who.

aleza

Wed, Dec 26 2012, 11:31 am

saw50st8 wrote:

shalhevet wrote:

I find it pretty disturbing that frum Jews would do anything to mark a day celebrating something which has led to the murder and suffering of millions of Jews over the centuries.

x-mas was not always a holiday that was religious and about murdering Jews. No one in my town (or anywhere in the US that I aware of) is murdering anyone. In fact, most of the religious Christians I know complain that most of the country celebrates x-mas as a secular holiday, not a religious one.

I'm not celebrating x-mas. I'm celebrating my (much needed) day off. Every year I even volunteer to work on x-mas as the only observant Jew in the office. My boss is half (real) Jewish, so he still does x-mas with his family.

But, along with my pajama pants, I'll add it to reasons why others think I'm a bad Jew. Rolling Eyes

Yes, I too know religious Xtians who bemoan the secularization & commercialization of their holiday. And somehow I respect their religious observance of it more than the secular. It's similar to... how many Americans observe Memorial Day for the purpose it was created? Also, in the town I grew up in, synagogues & other Jewish organizations would organize volunteers to man the phones and do other jobs for places that needed 24-hour coverage so their regulars could spend their holiday at home. I thought that was pretty cool. Lastly, before I was frum, but still back then annoyed at Xmas-overload, I complained to a non-Jewish friend about it. She said, 'yeah but all the Jews are making profits from it!'... she meant all the retailers of course.

shalhevet

Wed, Dec 26 2012, 11:53 am

moonstone wrote:

DrMom wrote:

shalhevet wrote:

I find it pretty disturbing that frum Jews would do anything to mark a day celebrating something which has led to the murder and suffering of millions of Jews over the centuries.

I never said Jews were celebrating. I used the word mark. By doing something special because it's such and such a date on the secular calendar, you are marking the day. A day which has been the source of 2000 years of terrible Jewish suffering. Do we not have any national pride or conscience?

I don't see why any secular date should be a reason to have fun. If a Jewish man doesn't need to go to work, he should be learning Torah. I grew up in a MO home and we never did anything 'fun' for Xmas. We had the day off - so we just did round the house type things - maybe sorting out our rooms or doing odd jobs or other things that needed doing and we didn't usually have time for. It is just inappropriate to be marking/ celebrating/ setting a family tradition/ having a fun time on a day which celebrates suffering for the Jewish people and avoda zara.

Apart from which I can't join your minhag since I don't watch movies all year and I believe that includes Xmas.

DrMom

Wed, Dec 26 2012, 12:09 pm

shalhevet wrote:

moonstone wrote:

DrMom wrote:

shalhevet wrote:

I find it pretty disturbing that frum Jews would do anything to mark a day celebrating something which has led to the murder and suffering of millions of Jews over the centuries.

Because we have a vacation day, whether we like it or not.

As for your statement that a Jewish man should study Torah on his day off: Can't families go out and have fun together, or is that against Torah in your worldview?

Also, why should I (if I were living in the US) davka not have fun just because it's a non jewish holiday? Why should that even be a factor in deciding what I do? It's not bad enough I can't get any errands done because every store I need to visit is closed, now I can't even have any fun -- just because some non-Jews randomly decided their god-head or whatever was born on that day?

PinkFridge

Wed, Dec 26 2012, 12:16 pm

DrMom wrote:

shalhevet wrote:

moonstone wrote:

DrMom wrote:

shalhevet wrote:

I find it pretty disturbing that frum Jews would do anything to mark a day celebrating something which has led to the murder and suffering of millions of Jews over the centuries.

Ah, but if the only places that are open are restaurants and theaters.... Tongue Out

I really do see both sides. I'm not going to be Scroogey here and tell you guys not to have fun (Hey, you know Santa's nationality? North Polish Dancing

); maybe some of us should start a new thread.
Interesting that my daily email from one of the kosher blogs was about....Chinese cooking. A few days late?...

cinnamon

Wed, Dec 26 2012, 12:23 pm

DrMom wrote:

shalhevet wrote:

moonstone wrote:

DrMom wrote:

shalhevet wrote:

I find it pretty disturbing that frum Jews would do anything to mark a day celebrating something which has led to the murder and suffering of millions of Jews over the centuries.

ITA
As a working mom I use any and every day off I get to have fun with my family and create good memories for my kids.
Thats why I take my kids out on yom haatzmaut and why I am planning to do something fun with them on election day.

imamiri

Wed, Dec 26 2012, 12:58 pm

shalhevet wrote:

moonstone wrote:

DrMom wrote:

shalhevet wrote:

I find it pretty disturbing that frum Jews would do anything to mark a day celebrating something which has led to the murder and suffering of millions of Jews over the centuries.

I mark several secular dates like July 4th in the US and July 1st in Canada. And Veterans Day in the US. And on the first two I do celebrate. And I guess you could say I am marking today too because I'm going out to take advantage of the sales and hopefully find a new camera lens.

And don't even talk about AZ when there are frum Jews who post here panicked because they lost their red string bracelet.

Last edited by imamiri on Wed, Dec 26 2012, 1:01 pm; edited 1 time in total