Who brings little children to the megilla?

shalhevet

Mon, Mar 05 2007, 10:44 am

Mitzvahmom wrote:

A. not everyone has a husband to watch the kids (or their husbands are out of town).
B. not everyone has money to hire a babysitter...and sometimes communities do not provide sitters.

So we are supposed to miss out on a mitzvah??

If there is no second reading, then it's the community's fault and not the mother's. Is there really no teenage girl who would be willing to babysit after she has heard the megilla as her mitzva, voluntarily?

I'm sorry, but mothers who bring little kids (if they make a noise) might well be making every woman there miss out on the mitzvah, because if you miss even one word you haven't fulfilled the mitzva.

Twizzlers

Mon, Mar 05 2007, 10:46 am

Mitzvahmom wrote:

I hear your point, but if your kid makes too much noise, you ruined it for yourself and everyone else too! then everyone missed out on the mitzva.
and why would u want that responsibility on your head??

withhumor

Mon, Mar 05 2007, 10:49 am

Give me a break, you don’t miss a word. They read it loud enough to hear it through the “wah wah, mommy, wah wah, mine mine, wah wah”. What about all those enthusiastic children playing with their noisemakers during megilla when it’s not time? If that annoys you, find a shul next to a cemetery. I’m sorry I am so annoyed but I was sitting next to a bubbe this year who kept sniffling, her noise was running but for some reason she thought that sniffling was ok,. I’m telling you, my 9 year old was annoyed too! She sniffed at average every 4th word, and boy that was more distracting that everything else! (do I need to mention she passed gas too at one point!?)

Mitzvahmom

Mon, Mar 05 2007, 10:52 am

Actually, B"H my kids were behaving.. Tongue Out

I was just stating the fact that it's not fair to state such judgements on all mothers. You do not know their situation or why they are there with all their kids..

I really believe that we should not judge anyone until we have walked in their shoes for a lifetime.

TzenaRena

Mon, Mar 05 2007, 11:00 am

Quote:

I'm sorry, but mothers who bring little kids (if they make a noise) might well be making every woman there miss out on the mitzvah, because if you miss even one word you haven't fulfilled the mitzva.

This is what happened in 770 the first night, one baby started to cry right after the brochos, and I and everyone else in the our room (the other rooms were able to hear) missed the first three words of the Megilllah. Of course the mother of that baby missed the first three words too, and had to go out anyway, so what did she think she accomplished?

When my kids were babies,my husband read the Megillah for us at home. Now we all go to shul, and hear it over at home......

Basya

Mon, Mar 05 2007, 11:01 am

I went at night to shul and there was a father who dropped off his 1st grade daughter in the ladies section- while I waited for maariv to begin, I asked the girl her name and if she knew to be quiet by the megilla and she said yes. After maariv another 1st grade girl came in alone. There were other women there as well. The 2 little girls sat together and made a complete racket during the megilla! they were shmoozing and ''graggering" not by haman - I said the megilla along with the ba'al koreh so that I would be yotzei and tried to shush the kids and stare them down during haman- they did not listen. Finally I poked my head through the mechitza and gave the father a stare- he didnt really understand me. I managed somehow to be yotzei megilla and went home very disturbed. I looked up the name of the family in the phone book and dh called and really gave it to the father (so that he would not take her along again in the morning).
What kind of business is this?? How could u send such a small kid unattended- if she was with the father- then let her sit with him in the mens section so he can watch her! I am really disgusted- there is no excuse to ruin other ppls mitzvah deoraisah. NO EXCUSE!! There were probably others there who were not yotzei (whether they know it or not)
And I am afraid to think of the ramifications these parents have coming too them.

Quote:

But they need to hear the Megillah.

In my humble opinion - rather dont hear the megilla at all , than ruin others chances. Not everyone can go run around to find another megilla reading bec. they were not yotzei bec. of your child.

BTW, the guy wasnt too apologetic after dh spoke to him. Rolling Eyes

shalhevet

Mon, Mar 05 2007, 11:01 am

withhumor wrote:

My kids are very well behaved so I took my 2 year old for granted this year. I couldn’t get a babysitter and I refused to go to a ladies minyan while my dh sits home alone eating the seuda! It’s totally not what I call a simchas yom tov (or both of us waiting until 11pm to start the meal?!). So I took my baby along and she was really enjoying the commotion by Haman. By the last page she spilled her snack by mistake and she was convinced that some other kid was coming tooooooooooo close to it so she started yelling ‘no no mine nack!” and so basically, I didn’t ‘follow’ the last page inside but I did hear it and everyone else did too. Whatchagonna do?! For those of you who can’t handle it, move back to Germany where they still frown upon graggers in the shul!

Do you think it's fair of you to decide that a whole shul full of people are willing to be disturbed so that you and your husband can eat together before 11pm?
You did have another solution, but you decided that everyone else would be mevater for your convenience.
Sorry to be rude, but I wrote before that this was the first year for 13 years that I went to the regular davenning. So I have been in your shoes. I think you are being very unfair to write as if someone who doesn't want someone else's two year old screaming in their ear in the middle of the megilla (after making arrangements for their own 2 year old not to be there) is intolerant.

withhumor

Mon, Mar 05 2007, 11:28 am

I think that whoever is not tolerant of the abundance of children in this very fruitful community K”H should join a shul where membership is by exclusively through a screening process. The shul is public and as long as I am allowed in there, I will feel comfortable going with my pet too (if I’d have one!). I’ve been to museums where there were groups of children from special schools and I was perfectly tolerant of them despite their funny quirks, would you be? I know that going to a museum is by choice and megilla reading is not however if you feel that I don’t belong and you do, please re-examine your priorities!

mimsy7420

Mon, Mar 05 2007, 11:32 am

withhumor wrote:

What does a museum have to do with a megillah reading where if you miss one word you aren't yotzei??

happy2beme

Mon, Mar 05 2007, 11:33 am

I didn't take dd to the night reading (way too late!) but I took her in the morning (she's 4) I didn't even want to take her but dh thought it would be a good idea since she learned all about it in school. BH she was amazing & I was so proud of her- that's nachas!

What was really annoying was the 10 yr old boy who kept blowing the whistle so loud by haman. Make noise, but don't make me go deaf ch"v!!!!

shalhevet

Mon, Mar 05 2007, 11:38 am

withhumor wrote:

I think that whoever is not tolerant of the abundance of children in this very fruitful community K”H should join a shul where membership is by exclusively through a screening process.

What does this have to do with anything? Bli ayin hara for all the children, but what does that have to do with taking a toddler to shul?

Quote:

The shul is public

A shul is public for any Jew who wants to daven. It is not a babysitting service. Sometimes when people bring little children there you take away someone else's chance to use the shul for its intended purpose.

Quote:

and as long as I am allowed in there, I will feel comfortable going with my pet too (if I’d have one!).

Sorry, that is just sick. A shul is a holy place, not a place for animals.

Quote:

I’ve been to museums where there were groups of children from special schools and I was perfectly tolerant of them despite their funny quirks, would you be? I know that going to a museum is by choice and megilla reading is not however if you feel that I don’t belong and you do, please re-examine your priorities!

Again, maybe I'm stupid, but I fail to see the connection. Why does a group of special children not allow me to see what I wanted to see at the museum?

withhumor

Mon, Mar 05 2007, 11:45 am

A shul is a place where everyone is welcome and so far I still am. When my 2 year old said ‘no no mine mine’ nobody said shushhhhhhhhhhh because the shush would’ve been louder than my kid. Everyone still heard the words of the megilla even through her whining (about 11 seconds) and I got lots of miles because, hey, she was cute! B’H I found a shul with lots of nice TOLERANT people there, is all I can say. I’m sure that all you quite amothers here agree, as the silent one almost always does.

JRKmommy

Mon, Mar 05 2007, 11:46 am

Our shul has a special "parent and tot" megillah reading, and that's what I attended with my kiddies.

In general, my shul is almost never pin-drop quiet - they do tricks like using traffic lights to indicate when it is and isn't okay to make noise, and giving goodies out to the quiet kids, but there's still a certain level of background hum. However, my shul is also known for its policy of always welcoming children, and they make it fairly clear that they don't promise a totally quiet environment. The tolerant policy on children may not be for everyone, but it does make the shul very attractive to families with children, does encourage families that may not have been from Orthodox/observant backgrounds to go to shul, and has helped to make this shul into one of the fastest growing ones in my city. There are a couple of "quiet" shuls that I have attended ONCE - and don't plan to attend ever again, because my kids are not welcome. At my shul, there's no pity party over declining membership or hand-wringing about "Jewish continuity".

amother

Mon, Mar 05 2007, 11:47 am

When I walked into shul shabbos morning for 'zachor', I was ready to make an about face and go home. There were about a thousand kids there!!! I couldn't imagine hearing ONE word, and I figured that at night will be the same story! But 'lemaasa" it really wasn't so bad. Most of the kids were left outside or in a dif. room with russian babysitters. And the kids that were inside, were basically well behaved.

Quote:

What was really annoying was the 10 yr old boy who kept blowing the whistle so loud by haman. Make noise, but don't make me go deaf ch"v!!!!

Dont ask what went on by us! There were car horns, shofars, whistles and what-not!!

Mrs. XYZ

Mon, Mar 05 2007, 11:59 am

withhumor wrote:

But what would have been if your child would have started crying, screaming (and it would have lasted more than 11 seconds) and half the people would have missed some words, would they all still be so TOLERANT??
I'm not saying never to bring kids. But you gotta know your kids. I also sometimes took my kids, but I KNEW they would never yell. I trained them very young that in shul you WHISPER.

Basya

Mon, Mar 05 2007, 12:24 pm

Quote:

A shul is a place where everyone is welcome

But if you are disturbing others?????? If you are ruining it for others?

What if it was YOU who had to go find another megilla reading at 11:30pm because you already went to 2 readings and you missed words by both because of someone else's kids? How would you feel then?? And it really does happen! Would you still think it was fine of those kids to be there?

S.Shcwartz

Mon, Mar 05 2007, 12:25 pm

What I think is that it's the way you plan it. I got two kids under 3 Bh. I started planning this megilah going for days. We had 'gear' - nosh, crayons, coloring book. Then they took a three hr nap on Shabbos afternoon. Dh took older and I took younger one. It was perfect. Not a sound. I think each mother knows their kid well, and what he needs in order to be calm and quiet. If they are not tired, hungry and are normally well behaved, then u can rely on that. KNOW YOUR CHILDREN.

greenfire

Mon, Mar 05 2007, 1:01 pm

Wow - I cannot believe I missed this ... so we all have to be TOLERANT of your child who cannot behave - what is this about?!? I agree with s.schwartz about "knowing" your children and preparing them properling and also divying them between both spouses in order to keep an eye and ear out for them. Like I said my kids are teen now but when they were little I never had a problem and they always knew how to behave in shul. I AM NOT NOR WILL I EVER BE TOLERANT OF ANYONES MISBEHAVED ILL MANNERED KIDS WHO MAKE A RACKET DURING SHUL OR ADULTS FOR THAT MATTER!!!!!
Shul is a place of kedusah - where we daven and listen to the chazan not talk. If a child is brought it should be to teach them the appropriate way to behave. They shouldn't be running back and forth to daddy and mommy or to the bathroom or with their friends!!!! They should be sitting next to YOU the parent and quietly learning to daven & listen themselves. Yes this CAN be done!!! And if you want to bring them treats to help they need to be treats that nobody else hears the party bags opening and making their own racket.