Who brings little children to the megilla?

chavamom

Mon, Mar 05 2007, 1:10 pm

Speaking as someone who once had to hear the entire megillah over b/c everyone missed part of perek beis - and the person reading didn't realize until afterward, and it was poskened we ALL had to hear again: if they are going to make noise, if they MIGHT make noise, if they COULD make noise other than durning the Hamans - KEEP THEM HOME. Who wants to spend 1 1/2 hours on one reading (yes, it was one of those slow readings too....)

miriam

Mon, Mar 05 2007, 1:11 pm

chavamom wrote:

miriam wrote:

amother wrote:

kids should be in bed that late.

But they need to hear the Megillah.

Who? The kids or the mothers? Babies and toddlers don't "need" to hear the megillah.

Everyone should hear the megillah.

shalhevet

Mon, Mar 05 2007, 1:22 pm

miriam wrote:

chavamom wrote:

miriam wrote:

amother wrote:

kids should be in bed that late.

But they need to hear the Megillah.

Who? The kids or the mothers? Babies and toddlers don't "need" to hear the megillah.

Everyone should hear the megillah.

Do you have a source? The SA says only from the age they don't disturb.

mimsy7420

Mon, Mar 05 2007, 1:23 pm

miriam wrote:

chavamom wrote:

miriam wrote:

amother wrote:

kids should be in bed that late.

But they need to hear the Megillah.

Who? The kids or the mothers? Babies and toddlers don't "need" to hear the megillah.

Everyone should hear the megillah.

Babies??

greenfire

Mon, Mar 05 2007, 1:41 pm

Oh yes I forgot to write that if you are so busy trying to hear how on earth can you tell someone else to be quite?!?!? Of course no one said anything about your dd and it's not about how cute she is - it's about if we hear megillah or not. Sorry - I love you anyway!

ChavieK

Mon, Mar 05 2007, 2:45 pm

Greenfire you said that very well.Also am I missing s/t about a seudah at night? I went to one of those quick megillah readings after dh got home with all the other kids. My shul is extemely tolerent of children, the rabbis own kids even run up to him during shul(no screaming involved), however megillah is a different story.
Withhumor, withh all due respect, many of us have been in your position. People have a chiyuv.Yes shul should be for everyone, but do your "rights and freedoms" come before someone elses obligations?Please read what Green said.Ofcourse noone said anything to you.Instead they just squirmed in their seats trying to hear. Like the mother who brought her kids in for Rosh Hashana.One was davening the other 2 were fussing & pushing & bopping e/o on the head with lollypops. There was one woman who said something & the mother looked at her like she was nuts & I heard her tell her kids how rude the woman was(she spoke very nicley & informed her of the babysitting). Most women didn't bother saying anything b/c they knew she wouldn't listen anyway.

sarahd

Mon, Mar 05 2007, 3:41 pm

ChavieK wrote:

Greenfire you said that very well.Also am I missing s/t about a seudah at night?

A lot of people have the minhag to have a seuda Purim night as well as Purim day.

Marion

Tue, Mar 06 2007, 3:44 am

Basya wrote:

Why would you want it on YOUR head that you caused others not to be yotzei the mitzvah d'oraisah of hearing every word of the megillah? Why would you want to even THINK of taking that chance????????? shock

Hearing megillah is NOT d'oraita. NONE of Purim is d'oraita, ALL d'rabbanan. Doesn't mean it's not important, just clarifying.

shalhevet

Tue, Mar 06 2007, 3:13 pm

I just checked it up in Mishna Brura 689 (18) and he says there (after saying that little children who disturb shouldn't be brought, and that their parents should keep close watch on their children:

u'veavonosaynu harabim - because of our sins, people now bring little children who distract the congregation (ie he doesn't even mention that people might not be yotzei with the megilla). You can look inside for the whole quote.

withhumor

Tue, Mar 06 2007, 3:21 pm

I agree with cshwartz and I actually mentioned it in my post earlier that my children are naturally well-behaved, therefore I took advantage of that fact and took my 2 year old with me this year, even though she’s a bit of a devil. She was prepared in the manner that shwartz described and she was perfectly well behaved until the LAST page and all she said was “mine mine no no!” and I also described how others in the shul disturbed me so much more. You do what you can do, you make your hishtadlus, you wipe your nose, and you hope for moshiach!

shalhevet

Sun, Mar 16 2008, 11:06 am

I'm bumping this up from last year, since something on another thread reminded me about it, and who knows, maybe it'll do some good reading it before Purim this time.

(And, BTW, I forgot about the thread, but I did not forget that no way am I going to that shul this year Exploding anger

)

Ruchel

Sun, Mar 16 2008, 11:17 am

Like every year, in shul it's going to be full of babies, kids and teens (!!) unable to sit, running around, yelling, hitting... that's, according to my mom, the difference with the non jews: much more toleration for children and much more "life" LOOOOL

greentiger

Sun, Mar 16 2008, 11:28 am

OOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO you've hit a sore spot of mine, now excuse the rant: what the heck are mothers thinking by bringng their kids to megillah??

IMO expecting a typical 5 yo to sit still without making noise for over 20 minutes is bordering on child abuse.

Now I confess, I did try to go to parshas zachor with my baby this past shabbos, but the second she made a peeps I rushd her out and left her outside in her stroller. I must say I wasn't yoize anywas and neither were any of the other women in shul because of the few kids whining in there, yet I sure got some nasty looks.

Atali

Sun, Mar 16 2008, 11:34 am

I think that it depends on the child and the situation. For example, when my oldest DS was a baby (seven months old), I knew that if I gave him his bottle right at the beginning of megila (he held it himself), he would drink it throughout the entire reading. So that is exactly what I did, and it worked just fine.

Last year, my DH took my kids in to hear megila (after he had already been yotzei) and took them out as soon as they started making noise (which was only right at the end)

YALT

Sun, Mar 16 2008, 11:53 am

excuse me if I'm wrong, but I thought that Megillas Esther is the only megilla that every Jew, young & old have to make sure to hear.

Now I understand, that your child shouldn't interrupt the whole shul from hearing, and I agree, but I think you should atleast try, and bring plenty to keep their mouths and hands full, and be prepared to run out in a split second if need be.
My opinion..... every single shul should have 2 readings simultaneously: 1 for adults, and one for children. In the children's minyan, it would be acceptable if a child made noise, and atleast they've heard it - even though they didn't follow word by word (which they can't do anyways.)
There should be a few highschool girls to care for the infants/toddlers during that megilla reading, and another reading for them right b4/after.
Personally, for such a service, I'd be ready to pay a few dollars, and let them get paid for their services.

gryp

Sun, Mar 16 2008, 12:30 pm

My kids are very well-behaved in public and I still wouldn't bring them. You never know what might happen that you will need to take care of and then I would end up missing megillah myself. If I had prepared everything I needed to take my kids there and I would end up missing it, I would be pretty annoyed.

Our simple solution was to buy our own megillah and my husband reads for me and the kids. It doesn't take more than half an hour to hear the entire thing, and so much better than packing snacks and toys for shul, never mind the getting dressed and getting out.

And other people come over to hear too, so we have b'rov am as much as possible.

GAMZu

Sun, Mar 16 2008, 4:27 pm

GR wrote:

This year we brought the Megillah to our children, instead of our children to the Megillah.
It was SO hard to keep the quiet AT HOME! I can't imagine what it would be like to try to keep them quiet in shul!!!! (never mind trying to hear every word)

I imagine my kids would also act up at home. In shul is different. They feel they need to be quiet.