What do you think about the "Womanly Arts"?

gryp

Wed, May 18 2005, 1:58 pm

Quote:

ps. thinking this over... the courses you mention, math and science, are really hard to apply, especially once you get to higher grades. but is there a purpose to learning, even if it is not practical? like just "being an educated person"? not sure about this. maybe it depends on the individual? or, maybe there is a value in being an "educated society?"

certain things I didnt have a problem learning because you cant walk around like an ignoramus. im glad that when people mention Shakespeare, Dickens, and Orwell, im not left in the dark, but I wish my school didnt have to be SO much into them.

but titrations in Chemistry, limits in Calculus, etc... whatever did I have to waste my time for, and now I sit here and I barely know how to buy a sewing machine...

gryp

Wed, May 18 2005, 2:13 pm

I dont think schools should be abolished. I think they should be changed. I dont know why kids must be in school 8 hours a day every day. and the curriculum.... I think every semester the subjects should change completely. (not hebrew ones, of course) if there is change every semester, you can learn a little bit of every type of subject.

lucky

Fri, May 20 2005, 12:18 am

Since we are all mothers, (or mothers to be..) it is very important to know the basics. and you DON'T have to enjoy it. Mending, baking,etc. are in the category of a mothers responsibility. unless you can afford full time help. Imagine your kid not taking cupcakes to school 'cause mommy doesn't know (or doesnt want to) how to. the best we can offer our kids is things we make on our own. It makes them feel special.

BTW, I dont sew clothes for my kids. Just the occasional costume and of course mending. my baking skills are basic. My cooking is not the greatest. And these are not always my top priority. I have been known to leave a load of dirty dishes in the sink, and use time to do crafts, or log on to imamother.

we as mothers MUST know so called"womanly skills" after all, Don't we run the house?

carrot

Fri, May 20 2005, 1:10 pm

RG wrote:

Quote:

I feel the same way when people expect me to have certain passions and iterests because I am lubavitch.

carrot, what did you mean by this exactly? I dont think I know anyone who shares the exact same interests as me, are we supposed to have the same ones?

what I mean is, if I am with a group of non-lubavitch people, and a topic comes up that is known to be connected with lubavitch, for example, kiruv, people will assume that I have something that I am dying to share on the topic, when the truth is, it is just not something I am that into.

Or else they will make sure to share with me the experience they had with the shluchim when they were travelling in x country. Not that I mind, I am always open to friendly chit chat, and it is definitely better than hearing negative comments about lubavitch, but in the back of my mind I wish they were realize that I am an individual, not just a representative of this weird sect (that tends to come in handy in foreign countries.)

I can't seem to think of a good example. it's a feeling that I sometimes got when I was in school with mostly not lubavitch girls.

oh another example: there were a few lubavitch girls in that school. so the not lubavitchers assumed that we were a group together, even though many of us did not even know eachother before we went to that school. if two of us would happen to walk into a room at the same time, people would almost chorus "the lubavitchers are there!" it was kind of annoying.

the end result of all this was that I felt that I could not ask any questions in that school because if I showed a crack in my theology they would conclude that all lubavitchers are non-believers or whatever.

carrot

Fri, May 20 2005, 1:17 pm

Quote:

Imagine your kid not taking cupcakes to school 'cause mommy doesn't know (or doesnt want to) how to. the best we can offer our kids is things we make on our own. It makes them feel special.

I hope I can offer my kids more than just cupcakes. I hope I can make them feel special in other ways.

I hope "running the house" means more than just mending and kitchen work.

if I can afford full-time help (which no, I can't, but theoretically -) does that mean that my kids will not feel special because it is not me doing all the work?

Rochel Leah

Fri, May 20 2005, 1:53 pm

carrot wrote:

Quote:

Imagine your kid not taking cupcakes to school 'cause mommy doesn't know (or doesnt want to) how to. the best we can offer our kids is things we make on our own. It makes them feel special.

I agree with you carrot. I personally feel that I would rather spend time with my kids then using that time to bake something for them, when I could easily buy it for them. of course it is really nice to have something made especially for them, so I would let mine join in the baking. but I dont think " bkaing , cooking, luandry are what make a good mother."

I know of some who have suppers cooked daily , laundry done on time , but when her child has a bad day at school she isnt there for him, or she saends her little ones to day care till 4 pm and she doesnt work.

I have a great relationship with my mom, and she didnt bake me anything.

elisecohen

Sun, May 22 2005, 6:42 pm

We actually do cook, bake, sew, quilt, embroider, smock, knit, can some of our own foods, garden, and so on--even enter items in the county fair here! We don't do it because we need to but because we enjoy it. I knit my kids socks not because I have too, and in fact it's much more expensive than buying the socks, but I enjoy doing it and they love having socks in yarn they picked out and made to fit their own feet exactly.
Making her own jam taught my younger daughter just how much sugar there is in jam.! Embroidery and quilting give her a great sense of pleasure too (she's almost 10 yrs old btw). She loves seeing what she can accomplish and give gifts to her grandmother, brother, and others. Entering her jam at the county fair was a good experience for her.

I don't think that anyone today who doesn't have to do any of these things should feel pressured or guilty because they don't--it's simply not a part of most people's lives. If you don't make your own challas and breads, you do miss out on taking challah, of course.

The only one I have very strong feelings about is the basic cooking skills--I was appalled back when we had yeshiva girls boarding at our home and they couldn't follow the basic directions to make a cake mix or macaroni and cheese. How can they live on their own let alone run a household, even if their husband takes on a great deal of responsibility in this area? Likewise, I think everyone male or female should be able to sew on a button and do basic hand hemming. But certainly no one is going to look crosseyed at anyone because their children don't come to shul in Ima-made matching smocked outfits every shabbos!

elisecohen

Mon, May 23 2005, 7:37 am

By staying too busy to think? I also started our community's women and children's gemach (baby goods, maternity, children's clothes); moderate a listserv for frum women with special needs kids; volunteer as a mentor for other women with special kids through The ARC; and am library-addictedjavascript:emoticon('8)') . But seriously, we do keep pretty busy and I guess we may have more hysteria around here than most people would want to cope with. Also, basic decisions like school choices are probably more involved for us.

But back on topic, it's part of why I cling to these "normal" pastimes--being able to sit a few minutes to knit baby gifts, sew an outfit, or work on the necklaces for the business I hope to get off the ground (beaded necklaces for nursing moms to wear for their babies to play with), or cook a nice meal are all things that help me relax and feel good to me. If they didn't I just wouldn't do them, I'd find other things to do!

Now if my baby would just start sleeping a little better (he's one of the kids with the GI disease and when his tummy hurts of course he can't sleep), I might actually get some projects FINISHED! 8)

shanie5

Sun, Nov 13 2005, 10:09 am

as I was reading this thread, my dh came to me with his suit pants which he needs now! one of the belt loops had come free. so I took a couple minutes to stitch it in place. I'll do a better job later when he's not in a rush. what does one do if they cant do that much?

I also have waiting for me: 2 pair of jogging pants to hem, two suit jackets to fix the linings wherethey were checked for shatnis, two girdles to fix,, 2 skirts to replace elastic in and a jacket that needs the buttons resewn on. all for other people who will pay me.
I also plan to sew bar mitzvah dresses for my girls. and my daughters have already asked me to make their wedding dresses when the time comes.

in the kitchen, I am prepping for a bar mitzvah that im catering next week.

I'm all for women forgetting the womanly arts- more parnassa for me LOL

1st timer youre right- my mil never buys cake and my dh prefers bakery stuff. his favorite food is kosher delight for the same reasons Confused

Motek

Sun, Nov 13 2005, 10:15 am

glad you revived this thread Wink

shanie5 wrote:

I'm all for women forgetting the womanly arts- more parnassa for me LOL

tell us, aside from parnasa, what do you think of the womanly arts? are you teaching your children (daughters?) to cook and sew?

is it a way to save money or do you see it as more "nurturing" than buying things?

in other words, if money wasn't an issue, would you still want to sew your daughters' clothes and cook, or would you buy most things?

shanie5

Sun, Nov 13 2005, 10:24 am

my daughters know how to cook-they help me with my business. they learned how to cook b4 I started in bus.

cooking and baking is cheaper than buying. the ingredients cost $$, but u get alot out of them. thats one reason I do it. I also enjoy it.

my daughters can sew a little. they are not up to making clothing, but buttons they can do. I plan on teaching them more-but im not good in the patience dept.(its easier to do it myself, just not neccessarily better).

as for sewing, shabbos and dressy clothing are cheaper to sew than buy. especially if youre a good shopper like me. most of my kids clothing is bought, not sewn due to lack of time, but the nicer stuff is usully made by me cuz its more special. going to the fabric store w/ my girls to pick out patterns was alot of fun. and time spent together.

if I was rich, I would still sew and bake- just not for others-only my family.

chen

Mon, Nov 14 2005, 10:28 am

If you like it, do it; if you don't like it, save your energy for something else. I fail to see what is inherently "womanly" about sewing--or baking, or cooking, or gardening. If you like woodworking and can't sew worth a hang, surely making your beloved a beautiful wooden esrog box is preferable to sewing him a crooked little tallis zeckel that he will be ashamed to show in public! OTOH if you were born with a golden needle in your hand, by all means sew him a magnificent tallis zeckel and all your family's clothing, too.

The Abishter gave people many gifts--but he gave different gifts to different people. The trick is to know what your gifts are and to use them in the best possible way. Children are in general better off with a happy mother than with homemade cookies.