Cut Me Loose - By Leah Vincent. Anyone read it? Thoughts?

amother

Sun, Jan 26 2014, 3:57 pm

marina wrote:

Lol. She paid a cent towards the laptop. It was fine because you paid the other 39999 cents. Did she help buy your laptop?

Oh, did I say that my mother paid for the laptop? well, that's not what I meant to say. See, I bought the laptop myself since my mom didnt believe that women should have access to the internet so she refused to buy it for me. I'm sorry I led you to believe otherwise, I hope I clarified it for you now. (I'm sorry I must have been in a good mood earlier. Smile

anon for this

Sun, Jan 26 2014, 4:24 pm

amother wrote:

Actually I will disagree with you. The laptop my mom bought me is equivalent to the rent Leah's mom paid for the first month. After that, I was responsible for the maintenance of the laptop in the same way that Leah was responsible for the maintenance, or rent, for her apartment once she got it. The fact is that my mom didnt provide me with a means to maintain the laptop and I couldnt afford to do so on my own so it broke. Leah's mom, otoh, provided Leah with a means to maintain her apartment by getting her a full time job so technically, Leah got much more from her mom than I got from mine. I guess I have a good reason to blame my mother for the broken laptop since she refused to help me maintain it but I cant say that the same is true for Leah since her mom helped her maintain her apartment. Maybe it wasnt EXACTLY what Leah wanted or expected from her mother but it was still better than nothing.

I haven't read the book and don't know much about Ms. Vincent's story, but I don't think the examples are comparable. Generally monthly maintenance of a laptop is much less than the initial cost, while monthly rent is usually the same as the first month's rent.

Regarding getting someone a job, while this is a wonderful mitzvah, most people don't think of it as "helping maintain an apartment" the way you do. My brother helped my sister-in-law's sister find a job at his firm. She was very grateful and took him and his wife out to dinner as an expression of thanks. But once she started her new job, I don't think she felt that my brother "helped her maintain her apartment", and I'm sure my brother didn't see it that way.

Raisin

Sun, Jan 26 2014, 4:30 pm

Mama Bear wrote:

High Schools in england end at 10th grader. Seminaries in England are the equivalent of 11th, 12th, and semineary year here in the US. A lot of girls go to Manchester or Gatesheads during 11th or 12th grade.

You can legally finish high school in the UK in 11th grade, when you do your GCSEs. But most people go on to do 6th form, which is normally 2 years where you take A levels, needed if you want to go to University. (typically you would do 3 or 4 A levels)

Often, more chariedi schools skip the 6th form years entirely and girls go straight to seminary. (eg satmar would certainly do that) Other schools will shorten 6th form into one year and do an abbreviated A level course. (known as AS levels) My school (lubavitch) did that. We did one or 2 AS levels (more were offered but my class was not very academic) and lots of kodesh subjects.

beis yaakov of Manchester (everyone actually calls it Jewish High) has a one year 6th form. I do not know what they do, probably some type of AS levels.

this is their website http://www.byjhs.org/index.html

amother

Sun, Jan 26 2014, 7:42 pm

I went to camp with Leah, and keep in mind that she was a brilliant kid, the kind that has a hard time associating with children her own age. I really believe that she would have struggled in any kind of world growing up. Think mad geniuses don't get trounced in public school? You know how the teenage TV shows thrive on making mincemeat out of the brilliant nerd? That was her. Honestly, she spoke using a vocabulary so high we usually had to ask her to translate.

I can imagine she finished HS at an accelerated pace and her parents were desperate to challenge her intellectually so she could grow up emotionally - throwing a 16 year old frum girl into college usually wont work. Raising a gifted child is an extremely challenging task.

And her family was out of town, no close-minded Chassidic family who never met Minnie Mouse...

Frumdoc

Sun, Jan 26 2014, 8:22 pm

Bearing in mind I haven't yet read the book, I do think there is an enormous amount of difference perspective makes in terms of personality and distance from events. I would have written a far different and angry account of my late teens and early 20s in my mid 20s as I would now in my mid 30s.

I used to say I was asked to leave by my parents when I was 18, given the bare minimum and supported my self ever since.

In reality, I did give up my own bedroom to another sibling who lived there full time when I left for sem. My parents paid sem fees and rent throughout my college years, and a tiny amount towards food, but I had to earn the rest. I often lived on bread or cereal, but was too proud to ask for more, and had a lot of odd jobs to fill in, including leafleting, cleaning and other less salubrious activities, such as busking or street artist. I always worked and earned my own way, even bought my own clothes from the age of 14 from babysitting and youth leader payments.

It was never easy, but I did it partly through choice and partly through pride. My parents didn't know I was struggling for money, and supported my siblings far better, because they asked, and made different life choices anyway.

I now look back with pride and gratitude that I was given the opportunity to do all those things, to live independently and know what it is like to really struggle, but with a safety net. I think it is one of the most valuable lessons I had, my parents taught me to be self sufficient and then pushed me to do it, trusting me to be my own person.

But, I could interpret it in so many negative ways, and definitely used to. It has taken years of experience and maturing to appreciate what they did for me, how amazing they were and are as parents, and how frightening it must have been for them to push me out the nest.

The stories we tell ourselves of our own experiences are colored by so much about the present, and it would be fascinating to see if some of these angry books would be different if rewritten by the same authors ten or twenty years down the line.

PinkFridge

Sun, Jan 26 2014, 9:37 pm

I can see a few possibilities:
She said she was cut off because of the level of estrangement. Maybe once she said that she had to follow up with making it sound like she was cut off, not just her level of pain.
Or she's really messing with everyone.
Maybe there are some others.

I just read a review in... not sure if it's Bookpage or not. It's a monthly book review mag at the library. It said she was from a "yeshivish" family. It didn't leave the best taste.

amother

Mon, Jan 27 2014, 1:03 am

People like leah Vincent and Deborah Feldman got up in public on TV shows to make fun of the Jewish religion- the audience cheered them on. Their books were praised and publicized. If a Christian or anyone from a different religion would get up like that they would have their head. I would never take such books in my hand from dysfunctional emotional disturbed human beings blaming our beautiful heritage for their problems. May they open their eyes before its too late and waste away

su7kids

Mon, Jan 27 2014, 1:36 am

I find it very interesting about the nit picking about the details of the book, (which I haven't read yet) and I wonder if anyone has ever thought about the number of families who "kick kids out of the house" when they decide to be less frum that the family they are raised in.

Sometimes, most times, this is not the best move for the child or the family, and sometimes love and nurturing can help a child remain "on the derech", or at least come back "eventually" but if you kick them out, you've lost the connection.

Not judging Leah or her family because I don't know them, and I haven't read the book, just pointing out a different perspective.

deena19k

Mon, Jan 27 2014, 2:29 am

amother wrote:

What are you even saying? There are plenty of documentaries of ex-christains and ex-muslims who have left the fold. Noone is having anyone's head.

imasoftov

Mon, Jan 27 2014, 6:36 am

deena19k wrote:

What are you even saying? There are plenty of documentaries of ex-christains and ex-muslims who have left the fold. Noone is having anyone's head.

On the Katie Couric show where Leah Vincent appeared (which I did not watch, but I looked up online), the other guests had left the Fundamentalist Latter Day Saints (Mormon fundamentalists) and the Westboro Baptist Church

http://katiecouric.com/behind-.....ions/

BlueRose52

Mon, Jan 27 2014, 9:25 am

amother wrote:

I meant to say if people leave their religious lifestyle. and get up in public on tv or write books bashing and making fun other religions would never tolerate. Deborah Feldman on the View got up was cheered by the audience when she spoke about family purity in such a shameful way. It's one thing leaving ur religion but making fun and degrading it is horrible

Yeah, why can't those people who suffered in the name of religion just keep their mouths shut and go away? Why do they need to tell everyone just how badly they were treated?

PinkFridge

Mon, Jan 27 2014, 9:49 am

imasoftov wrote:

So glad that the ultra Orthodox Yeshivish sect (as a review I just read put it) is in the same league Rolling Eyes

Did Ms. Vincent have a clue before going on the show? Did she address that?

Lovely. I just hit the link. BlueRose, I don't think people should be muzzled. Self-edit, yes. To agree to be lumped in with such groups is troublesome to me, but maybe I should be dlkz a lost soul as I haven't read the book, seen Katie, and I can't fully access the above link.

miami85

Mon, Jan 27 2014, 10:12 am

I watched the Katie segment. I knew Leah's family, and Leah a little bit, my mother had her as a student. I think some of this is a matter of her perspective, her father was my Rav, her perspective is VERY blunt, her family was very religious but they were looked up to as the Rav and Rebbetzin in a mostly Modern Orthodox community so the decisions that they made were very much "scrutinized". She didn't like what her family had to offer, nothing was going to satisfy her, so her family tried dealing with her in a way that they thought would help her "grow out of it" but she "ran" with it and now is using it against her family and religion. All I can say is that I saw the preview on Kindle and B"H she did NOT use any real names. I think she is trying to get attention, perhaps even from her family, but I thankfully she is not trying to hurt her family.

marina

Mon, Jan 27 2014, 12:21 pm

PinkFridge wrote:

So glad that the ultra Orthodox Yeshivish sect (as a review I just read put it) is in the same league Rolling Eyes

I heard the interview- doesn't she explicitly explain that there are different groups and what she said are only her experiences in her little group? I'm pretty sure she says that right at the outset.

amother

Mon, Jan 27 2014, 1:15 pm

I find it intersting that she is from an openminded and not insular sect of judaism yet her book will read almost the same way as those from ultra insular sects.
It makes me realize that it is not the insular sects that is causing problems for these kids. Its the kids themselves who no matter what sect they are from will never be happy and blame everything on their community and parents.

And dont ask me why im amother. I have a reason but cannot disclose it.