Please explain: Satmar, "new illness", makeup

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chavamom

Fri, Feb 07 2014, 11:58 am

^That.

PS - ipods, 4G and streaming video are a heck of a lot newer than cancer.

carpediem

Fri, Feb 07 2014, 12:03 pm

I'm confused. Is he saying that wearing "forbidden makeup" is causing "this" illness? Or the fact that women are applying this makeup on shabbos is what's causing it?
And what is "forbidden makeup" as opposed to allowed makeup? Blue eyeshadow? Or too heavy?
Because it's a woman's illness, the fact that it's still around is automatically attributed to tznius? Cancer and many other women's illnesses have always been around. I don't understand the connection.

vintagebknyc

Fri, Feb 07 2014, 12:13 pm

the threat of an illness if women aren't tznuis.

Chayalle

Fri, Feb 07 2014, 12:23 pm

chavamom wrote:

I suppose you could check for HSV, but only if you had a lesion. You can't really check for breast cancer at home either. And it's really not new. The whole article is very confusing.

PS - to the poster with a relative who is a medical professional: official guidelines are that breast exams should start at age 20.

Because BC is rare in teens. Like I posted, she found a lump on a 17 year old; now she examines teens. (I think she starts at high school).

MaBelleVie

Fri, Feb 07 2014, 12:29 pm

penguin wrote:

I was wondering if it has anything to do with the recent spate (well, at least two) in the frum mags about elective mastectomies due to finding the BRCA gene.

I corresponded with Ami, perhaps medical professionals here can weigh in. I am very curious if any of the studies which show the high rates of cancer looked at the participants' use of hormones (whether to prevent or encourage pregnancy) which are so common these days.

I know there is at least one study that shows a correlation between use of Clomid & higher rates of cancer.

So, if we factor out anyone who took hormones, what rate of cancer would we see for BRCA?

(I know they discourage women who are carriers from using hormonal BC. So evidently they realize there can be some connection.)

The gene is something a person is born with. It doesn't develop later on in life.

EmesOrNT

Fri, Feb 07 2014, 12:36 pm

This thread is all speculation, and it will stay that way because no one knows what he meant. Not even the sat mar women. If you want to know what he was talking about, you'll have to ask him.

Bottom line, its another one of those silly rants against something that can't be prevented and putting the blame on soothing random. The only people even paying it any heed are non satmar people.

black sheep

Fri, Feb 07 2014, 12:37 pm

chavamom wrote:

That was where my mind went immediately. But that is a hazard of my occupation (for clarity, I work obstetrics in a hospital with an inner-city population and yes, STD's are very, very common).

but certainly they are not caused by wearing makeup.

jeweled

Fri, Feb 07 2014, 12:38 pm

I read it as the "new illness" IS "wearing makeup in a non tznius manner"

vintagebknyc

Fri, Feb 07 2014, 12:38 pm

from the american cancer society:
Although in some families with BRCA1 mutations the lifetime risk of breast cancer is as high as 80%, on average this risk seems to be in the range of 55 to 65%. For BRCA2 mutations the risk is lower, around 45%. "

Barbara

Fri, Feb 07 2014, 12:40 pm

jeweled wrote:

I read it as the "new illness" IS "wearing makeup in a non tznius manner"

And doctors went to a rabbi about that?

black sheep

Fri, Feb 07 2014, 12:50 pm

I just read the whole article. three fallen sifrei torah! he is right that it is time for introspection. but I don't understand the connection to women's health and makeup? it sounds to me like men's health is in question here. it is very unusual for a man to let a Sefer Torah fall, and to have three fall so close together, I think he should be consulting a doctor about the men. maybe they need to lift the ban on broccoli and strawberries and treadmills, and instead put a ban on potato kugel. and maybe a little less schnapps at the kiddush club...

gp2.0

Fri, Feb 07 2014, 12:50 pm

The call to action at the end telling people to donate money is very telling.

jeweled

Fri, Feb 07 2014, 12:57 pm

Barbara wrote:

And doctors went to a rabbi about that?

I read it in a metaphorical way. As if there is a new disease that doctors are concerned about. I read too much into things.

Sherri

Fri, Feb 07 2014, 1:00 pm

gp2.0 wrote:

The call to action at the end telling people to donate money is very telling.

A falling sefer Torah is considered to be very serious so money is to be donated to tzedaka if one cannot fast. What is wrong with that?

eta I see that even those who are fasting are asked to donate. I do not have experience with a fallen sefer Torah, I do not know what is considered standard beyond the fasting.

Last edited by Sherri on Fri, Feb 07 2014, 1:02 pm; edited 2 times in total

jeweled

Fri, Feb 07 2014, 1:00 pm

jeweled wrote:

I read it in a metaphorical way. As if there is a new disease that doctors are concerned about. I read too much into things.

I read the whole article in context. I take back my comment.

vintagebknyc

Fri, Feb 07 2014, 1:08 pm

if we wear make=up, men will die?

penguin

Fri, Feb 07 2014, 1:47 pm

Quote:

The gene is something a person is born with. It doesn't develop later on in life.

I think you missed my point. Given that studies show that a very high percentage of women with the gene are at risk, I want to know if the risk is lower in women who, although they have the gene, did not use hormones (and how about those who only had organic chicken, meat, milk and therefore less hormones in their body?).

Conversely, if we separate out the women who were exposed to large amounts of hormones, will we find that a higher rate of those with the BRCA are symptomatic?

Clear?

MaBelleVie

Fri, Feb 07 2014, 1:51 pm

penguin wrote:

Quote:

The gene is something a person is born with. It doesn't develop later on in life.

I hear. It wasn't clear earlier that you were linking the two. The rates are so high among those with brca that I'm not sure how reliable or valid any studies would be. Those who know they are at risk due to the gene are definitely informed re avoiding anything that ups the risk further. Many women with the gene don't know that they have it, and the ethical value of testing women other than those in a very specific cohort is debatable.

Barbara

Fri, Feb 07 2014, 1:54 pm

vintagebknyc wrote:

if we wear make=up, men will die?

if I don't wear makeup, men will be blinded. Their choice.

MaBelleVie

Fri, Feb 07 2014, 1:56 pm

I just want to point out that halachically one is not allowed to tell a woman she can't wear makeup even when she is in aveilus, because a woman should not deprived of the ability to feel good about the way she looks. I don't know how they reconcile this new ban with halacha.

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