To that selfish woman at Children's Place in BP today:

marina

Wed, Mar 19 2014, 11:20 am

IMHopinion wrote:

Of course we care a lot. And therefore we will gladly Allow to cut the line IF YOU ONLY ASK.

Because it's always reasonable to expect overwhelmed and stressed people to ask permission? Because it's always reasonable, even if the person has a father dying in the hospital, to expect them to have the presence of mind to ONLY ASK you?

And if you read this thread, there's really no sense of "we will gladly allow" anything. Instead there's a sense of "feel free to ask whatever you'd like, but I still think you're an a-hole and will tell you that to your face because I need to assert my rights and not have anyone walk all over me."

momX4

Wed, Mar 19 2014, 11:22 am

marina wrote:

we have threads upon threads about how we should be understanding when moms lose it at their kids and yell and yell. And we should just be helpful and offer to bring over a meal or watch the kids or help those moms in some other way.

But when those moms cut in front of us in line- they deserve our scorn and anger and vitriol

I was once the mom with 2 crying babies waiting on line. I didnt ask to cut and no one offered. What kept me going was the women behind me that emptied out my wagon on to the counter with a smile. Now I try to do it for others when I can.

marina

Wed, Mar 19 2014, 11:24 am

smss wrote:

it all comes down to: if I'd do it too, I understand when someone else does it. if I'd never do it, there can be no reason good enough to justify it.

I guess that's why I'm disgusted with this thread. I can never imagine a situation where I'd be so angry at a person with 19 items in the 10-item line that I'd sit there and rant about it on a forum. And I certainly can't imagine how I would ever feel like a decent person if I was unkind to them about it.

Ok, barring the situation where the woman comes in and says: I need to go ahead of you because I chipped my nail.

Barbara

Wed, Mar 19 2014, 11:24 am

marina wrote:

This is what your position translates into: "I don't give a **** about you losing your job or your daughter's lung transplant or your chemotherapy because you didn't ask my permission. OF COURSE, if you only asked my permission, I'd be happy and understanding and full of love and rainbows, but since you didn't think to ask for my consent, I will be all offended and huffy and I will go on a forum and post a three page rant about how offended I am."

This is what your position translates into.

"I don't give a hoot about the rest of you who came into this store in time to accomplish your errands, and would have but for me. I am the most important person in the world, and you should all be pleased as punch to be inconvenienced by the Queen of All She Surveys. I HAVE PROBLEMS. And they are much more important than any problems that you might have. Because I am ME. And you are nothing.

"You see, I running late, but decided to go to the store before going to work anyway. Now I may be late for work for the 100th time and be fired. YOU, you came early, so you can get to work on time. Well, you won't now. And maybe your employer will dock you time. But you are you, and unimportant to me. The only thing that is important to ME is that I get to work on time, no matter how much that inconveniences you, or how it affects you. I don't understand why you don't get that I am important, and you are nothing.

"And I have a kid with health problems. Don't you understand that gives me carte blanche to be rude, and I don't have to explain. You have a kid or spouse with health problems too? Hey, I really don't care. I am the only important person. I have the right to walk in front of you."

Its narcissistic, self-centered, obnoxious. And I don't condone it.

marina

Wed, Mar 19 2014, 11:27 am

Barbara wrote:

Yeah. Because when my dad is dying in the hospital, that's exactly what I'm thinking about, Barbara. How you should all be pleased to be inconvenienced by me and how you are nothing because I am the most important person in the world.

Exactly the thoughts going through my mind.

What about those people who steal medicine for their kids? Shall we cut off their hands today or tomorrow? Today, I think. Because, you know- those people are WRONG and their problems don't EXCUSE their crimes and they are so SELF CENTERED and NARCISSISTIC and OBNOXIOUS because they don't realize they are taking livelihood from me and my family.

relish

Wed, Mar 19 2014, 11:33 am

Marina, it is just that you are playing devils advocate and justifying a wrong, so others should see and be dlz. I get it now. I didn't before. No, I don't think you would act like that in real life. Not from all your other posts at least.
But, when you present it in the way you did it comes across as if you have a sense of entitlement to do as u please, not taking anyone or anything into consideration.
If you would like to keep arguing go ahead, but I think you and everyone are really on the same page.

marina

Wed, Mar 19 2014, 11:35 am

momX4 wrote:

All I ask is for the person to acknowledge that I am a person as well. You have no idea what my life is like, but when you ask to cut and I allow it,it makes me feel good. You can change my day the same way I can change yours.

When you cut infront of me without asking you are telling me I am worthless and invisible. You ruin my day.

No. That's how you're interpreting my actions incorrectly. Please read over my comments in this thread and realize that my behavior has nothing to do with whether your self-worth, but everything to do with my personal crises that I'm going through today.

And please- don't let your day be ruined because I cut in front of you. Save your ruined day for something a little more tragic.

marina

Wed, Mar 19 2014, 11:37 am

relish wrote:

Act like what? Would I cut in line without asking? I hope not, but it might happen one day. Never happened yet, but who knows what the future brings.

Would I "assert my rights" when someone cuts in front of me? Not over my dead body.

Barbara

Wed, Mar 19 2014, 11:47 am

marina wrote:

Yes, those are precisely the things you are thinking. Because it is not occurring to you that others have the same problems. You think you're the only one with a problem, and that your problems are more important than anyone else's. Even now, you refuse to recognize that others may have problems in addition to yours. Problems that may be more serious.

marina

Wed, Mar 19 2014, 11:53 am

I'm not going to convince you. That's okay, I guess.

I think it's normal to be annoyed and a little frustrated with people who cut in line.

I also think it's terrible middos to get angry about this or to ignore the real possiblity that people have tremendous challenges and bad things that you know nothing about it and that you may be judging someone as if they are cutting in line b/c they are late for their manicure and instead they are late for chemo. It's bad middos to be convinced that something is so wrong that you won't even consider whether it might be understandable.
Especially if the "wrong" is a simple cutting in line.

But hey- you want to insist that it's the other person who is rude and selfish and inconsiderate, go right ahead.

Pat yourself on the back for standing up for your rights not to be treated like a doormat. Give yourself a little gold star for not letting that stressed and harried woman cut in front of you. You go, girl!

Last edited by marina on Wed, Mar 19 2014, 11:58 am; edited 1 time in total

marina

Wed, Mar 19 2014, 11:56 am

Barbara wrote:

Even if you're rushing to get home to your autistic child? Or dying father?

Yes, there are real situations where two people's dire circumstances conflict and that's a very challenging spot to be in. I don't know what the answer is.

But that's not what this thread is about, now is it?

It's just about how waa-waa-waa I was standing in line and this lady was so rude to me, who does she think she is? There were no comments either by the original poster or by any other suggesting that they were rushing home to an emergency and this obnxious woman cut ahead because she had to get her nails done.

groovy1224

Wed, Mar 19 2014, 12:09 pm

marina wrote:

I'm not sure which of your rants to quote to respond to, so I'll choose this one I guess. I have no idea which really depressing community you live in where every rude person acts that way because of disastrous life circumstances. Where I'm from, 99.99999% of these people are just obnoxious. Their hair is done, nails well manicured, and are updating their Facebook statuses on their iPhone 5's as they shove over people in the checkout line. So yeah, I'd say they're not tending to the sick and hungry in their free time.
That's not to say that the people you mention don't exist. I was once in a very similar situation to one of the ones you listed. I won't say which, but one of them. I never behaved that way..it never occurred to me. Many many people unfortunately go through a time in their lives where just functioning takes herculean strength. Deaths occur, sicknesses occur, poverty etc. But I NEVER expected some stranger's life to go on pause because of it. Because like everyone else said, how do I know they don't have it worse than me? And even if they don't, I can't view everyone else as a speed bump. Even in crisis, don't lose your sense of humanity. Yeah, people crack, but if that's the case it's obvious it's a special circumstance. You can see it on someone's face. So that's so obviously not what's being complained about.

Oh and since when do people need to be in an apoplectic rage to rant on an internet forum? I don't get why you think that just because people are ranting here means that anyone's about to start shopping with a shotgun. I think if anyone it's you who needs to calm down.

Frumdoc

Wed, Mar 19 2014, 12:45 pm

I've met lots of people in critical illness scenarios, where their loved one is dying, seriously ill, whatever.

The vast majority don't change their basic middos because of their situation, most are kind, forgiving and as generous in their distress as they are the rest of the time. I can always tell the ones who will shout and scream, because they do it for everything, whether it is important or not. Thye certainly seem to lead harsher lives than everyone else, because everything makes them angry and everyone is always out to get them.

Occasional obnoxious behavior may be understood and forgiven, but it is never l'hatchila correct.

You don't get a pass to treat others badly when your life is a mess. You are still responsible for your actions, good, bad or ugly.

And pretty much everyone on here is saying that if people ask, they will gladly (or reluctantly) give them a pass to disobey the rules.

But society's rules are there to prevent a great huge free for all, where we all barge towards the checkouts as fast as we can, knocking over as many weak and vulnerable people in the process so our priorities get met. No one wins in that scenario.

Chayalle

Wed, Mar 19 2014, 1:04 pm

Didn't you guys ever hear this one? This whole thread reminds me of it....

A group of travellers are lined up trying (scrambling more like it) to make altnernative travel arrangements because their connecting flight was cancelled. Everyone is frustrated but trying to act like mentchen, when one guy comes along and shoves everyone out of his way pushing to cut the line and get ahead.

The airline manager sees him and politely tries to direct him back to the end of the line. He snarls at her and everyone else and says "Don't you know who I am?!!!"

She doesn't miss a beat. Grabs her microphone and announces, "Ladies and Gentlemen! We have a passenger here who DOESN'T KNOW WHO HE IS! If there's anyone here that can help him out please speak up!"

Well, the tension eases and the guy is put in his place.

My sister was once in a shoe store in Lakewood just before one of the Chaggim. For those of you who have never been in this situation, I will fill you in that you can expect to wait for approximately 1 -2 hours to be serviced. There's a sign in sheet with a long line of families all waiting, with kids restlessly running around, etc....everyone's been sitting and waiting, trying to keep their kids from destroying the place.....

Anyway, a woman walked, all expensively dressed and made up, with her little girl, and she told the store owner that she has a sibling's engagement party that night, in Monsey...and her daughter's shabbos shoe has disappeared, and she needs to leave soon, so can she please help her RIGHT NOW.

So the owner calmly told her that if she gets the okay from every person on the sign-in sheet, most of whom have been waiting for an hour, fine. Otherwise, she can go to Payless down the block.

I have to say, I've always respected this woman for the way she handled that.