When to potch? | Imamother

groisamomma

Sun, Apr 06 2014, 7:38 pm

marina wrote:

I don't even get it. According to many of the posters here, the toddler is not able to learn the connection between a spank and not running into the street. That child's cognitive skills are just insufficient and she won't remember anything, etc., etc.

And yet- that very same child has enough cognitive skills and memory to understand and remember that a single spank means mommy doesn't love me or the only way to solve problems is through hitting or power hungry parents scare their kids into submission or whatever you think that child understands.

You can't really have it both ways. If the child's development is not mature enough for her connect the spanking punishment with her conduct, then the child's development is certainly not mature enough to understand any of the more complicated concepts in my second paragraph in this post.

MaBelleVie, what do you think?

MaBelleVie

Sun, Apr 06 2014, 7:43 pm

groisamomma wrote:

MaBelleVie, what do you think?

I said repeatedly that I believe potching a toddler can work (though not always, and it certainly isn't as effective as prevention). I didn't imply anywhere that the child is having deep contemplative thoughts on what it means when mommy potches him. Just that he will absolutely not comprehend that the potch is coming from a place of love. If you don't care about that, gezunteheit.

And no, it isn't the same thing as making a toddler take a bath or get dressed or go to sleep when he doesn't want to.

amother

Mon, Apr 07 2014, 12:09 am

This is one time I totally and completley agree with Marina.

My DH was in the hospital for a while and when he moved into Rehab there was a nother cute little Chassidishe boy, around 6 years old.

Adorable kid. He was the pet of the whole floor, curly peyos the works.

A friend had called out to him and he darted into the the street. An older woman who lived on the ;lock hit hime.
It was'nt her fault at all she never had a chance to stop.
She was a victim as well, she could'nt live with herself.

The child had been brought into the hospital a "pancake" lo aleinu. The doctors then had given zero chance of survival without serious brain damage.

When we got there it was six weeks later. HKBH makes nissim, the child was zipping around in a weel chair and was on the way to a complete recovery B"H.

And you know where I live in the long summer afternoons the women gather together on the block an shmooze while the kids run around and play.

And virtually all of them run in the streets and yes even the older one's don't have the proper caution, how can they? It was never imbued in them when they were little.
My Dh was watching and once he approached the women, for what I think was the first and last time he ever "joined the group", and told them about his roomate and he begged them be a parent and have a little rachmonus on your child.

Realize why my children don't run in the street.
Ever. Period.

Cause if they do they know that they are going to get smacked and smacked hard.
We love our children to much not to smack them.

And now they'll cry and they'll make a fuss.
But they won't do it again.
But when they grow up they'll love us all the more.

Because when they are adults and have children of their own to care for, Bezras Hashem, they'll realize Totty and Mommy loved them so much that they were willing to put up with anything to make sure they would stay safe.

And when a child was hit by a car in my area it wasn't mine.

But I just wish that mother had cared enough about their child to have smacked them.
I wish because I watched the anguish each and every day. I can see the boy in a wheel chair in my mind each and every day.

MaBelleVie

Mon, Apr 07 2014, 12:33 am

You know what? If my four year old ran into the street, I would potch him. Not hard, but in a symbolic way because he knows that potching is reserved for that kind of thing (doing something that he knows is dangerous). Still, I'm not so sure that if he was distracted enough he wouldn't do it again a month later.

I think it's awful that you're blaming this child's mother for the accident that resulted from her poor discipline. You don't know that.

ETA yeah and what gold21 said. Lazy lazy lazy parenting to sit around and provide inadequate supervision. Instead of ignoring kids or smacking them, how bout actually watching them? Hmmm

5*Mom

Mon, Apr 07 2014, 6:06 am

marina wrote:

1. Your first paragraph refers to a demand on the rational brain; second paragraph to the primitive brain. (Although if you ask me, *love* is a meaningless, irrelevant word in the context of this discussion; love in the way adults mean it is a meaningless concept to a toddler, regardless of whether or not it is a working part of her vocabulary.*Attachment* would be more accurate and that is not a rational process.)

2. I agree that a single spank in the context of a healthy, stable parent-child relationship will hardly cause lasting damage. But scientifically speaking, a single spank will not condition a toddler to stay out of the street. And the parent who thinks that it will, and relies on that instead of proper supervision and appropriate precautions to keep her child safe is the parent who is risking her child's life, not the one who won't give a useless spank.

Leora2

Wed, Jul 08 2015, 5:50 pm

I dislike potching, but I do it. It's effective. I am more likely to use positive reinforcement for good behavior, or punishments like taking away screen time or toys or a play date, or a time out in their room. But for repeated disobedience, I potch. My child gets a warning, and then a time out or loss of privilege. If it happens again, they get potched, no exceptions. I also potch if they get into serious or repeated trouble at school. I take them to their room for privacy, and potch on the tush five times, hard. After getting potched they stay in their room for a time out. They know the rules and the routine and we generally only need to potch maybe 4-5 times a year in total. DH follows the same policy except he no longer feels comfortable potching our oldest daughter. We have a 13 year old daughter, 10 and 8 year old sons, and six year old daughter. The one exception to the above rules was when my 8 year old got the proverbial public potch for running into the street after a baseball at age four (we've since fenced in our yard to prevent this exact situation). His siblings all saw it and guess what, not one has ever run into the street since. After getting potched for something, we almost never have the same problem behavior.

My thirteen year old last got potched maybe a year ago, and my ten year old hasn't been potched since he was six. My 8 year old needs a potch every 3-4 months and my six year old has only been potched twice in her life. Their friends' parents have similar policies.

pause

Wed, Jul 08 2015, 9:12 pm

Leora2 wrote:

I believe that a potch has its place, but WADR, your kids are way too old to be potched.

ETA: I only now noticed the other ancient, recently resuscitated potching thread. I shouldn't have bothered answering at all...

Last edited by pause on Wed, Jul 08 2015, 9:26 pm; edited 1 time in total

Lady Godiva

Wed, Jul 08 2015, 9:16 pm

Leora2 wrote:

Why are you reviving all the potching threads today?
There are 3 that you revived that I see on the main page.
What's your agenda?
Are you purposely flaunting that you spank children even though it's unacceptable and deemed abusive by society?

Last edited by Lady Godiva on Wed, Jul 08 2015, 9:18 pm; edited 1 time in total

Leora2

Wed, Jul 08 2015, 9:57 pm

Um...no?

New to the site and making my way through the boards that pertain most to my life. I hasn't actually noticed the dates at all until you mentioned them but will not be aware of which threads are no longer active. Why aren't they archived somewhere?

LadyGodiva are you in UK where what you described may be true? In the US spanking is not abuse and it is acceptable. Perhaps not to you, but to society and parenthood in general.

oliveoil

Wed, Jul 08 2015, 10:04 pm

Leora2 wrote:

When a post is on page 10 of a section, you can pretty much assume it's an old thread. You can also always look at the dates.