Worried about hostess falsifying

ValleyMom

Tue, Jun 17 2014, 9:31 pm

My little sis served her chossen tabachnik soup in a bag but she thought she was SOOOO brilliant--

She took the extra 20 second to OPEN the bag and dump the frozen brick in a small pot to reheat, she tried to present it as homemade...

Unfortunately he discovered the filthy plastic bag at the top of the trash.

Thank god he has a sense of humor!!!

They are happily married over 20 years and she actually has someone who "helps" with the cooking...

:-)

bookworm10

Tue, Jun 17 2014, 9:33 pm

I honestly thought this was a kashrus issue type thread- that someone doesnt eat store bought things, etc.

Otherwise, Let it go. Who cares? Some people really can bake thing that look store bought. My sister can make perfect knishes, bourekas, cakes with fondant, etc.

And some people need to impress others and pretend to make things they did not. Doesnt really matter.

amother

Tue, Jun 17 2014, 10:56 pm

I once lied.

Someone I knew was aware that I was having a large crowd at a certain ((difficult) time in my life.

She prepared a lot of things for me without me even knowing before hand.

When she brought the food over she told me that I must promise her not to let anyone know that I did not make them myself.

It felt weird to accept compliments for food I didn't prepare.

The hardest question I got was someone asking me how I prepared something!

BTW I made something out of frozen pastry dough recently and was fascinated how it looked like a frozen prepared item from the freezer section! It didn't look homemade at all and it was! I used a certain kitchen gadget that made the shape to perfection.

So you never know....

amother

Tue, Jun 17 2014, 11:13 pm

I was newly married. I sent my landlord a trifle for a kiddush she was making. I used Duncan Heinz cake. She went on and on how it tasted just like her grandmothers cake recipe. I just nodded and led her to believe I made it. Too embarrassed to say it was a mix. I dont even know why but DH and I still bring up th story sometimes.

ElTam

Tue, Jun 17 2014, 11:17 pm

Smiledr wrote:

Quote:

Eitam , often you're responses are overly harsh. Maybe you should dial it back a bit - would you be ok if someone addressed you the way you often address others?

If I were, with no reason, to accuse someone who was gracious enough to invite me into their home and serve me food of lying (call it falsifying, it's still an accusation of lying) and further consider discussing this ridiculous lashon hara with my husband, yes, I would want someone to tell me as firmly as possible that I had taken leave of my senses.

However, I will take your comment into heart and consider it in the future. We learn from everyone...

amother

Tue, Jun 17 2014, 11:28 pm

To OP:

I understand that as some sort of unofficial mentor, you feel a sense of responsibility and are concerned that this might be a red flag for a deeper issue.

However, if you plan on continuing to be a mentor, you need to understand a certain principle about human behavior and when an issue becomes an issue.

Only look for PATTERNS, instead of being concerned about individual occurrences. We are all entitled to act out of character on a bad day, it is when it becomes a constant or frequent thing that it becomes a problem.

As I heard from Dr. Laz, the difference between normal and pathological is FID - Frequency, Intensity, and Duration.

If you do notice this young woman frequently engaging in what seems to be white lies, THAT is when to start analyzing it. If all you see is an isolated instance, Dan Lekaf Zechus is your friend.

Dolly Welsh

Tue, Jun 17 2014, 11:56 pm

I am wondering if it is nice to ask someone if something they are serving you was made by them.

They are handing it to you. It's a gift.

What? You are supposed to inquire exactly who and how it was made? What? I can't imagine anything ruder. And no artful leading remarks designed to elicit what you want to know.

It's none of your business!

That may be where the rub is.

You say "oh this is so delicious".

No matter what you really think. The hostess will figure out if it's a hit, by how fast it disappears.

Maybe that's the end of the story?

Recipe swapping is for women who love each other, such as sisters and close friends.

You don't pry, otherwise.

Why open somebody else's craft secrets? If they want to share, they might. If you know her very well, you can beg the recipe in private much, much later, not at the time. If she confides she bought the whole business, ask the brand and store, and promise not to tell anybody. It's none of their business, either.

As for catching someone in a white lie, OP, again, just make sure it's not a lot, not often. Now and then, people are allowed one. That's why it's called a white lie.

Nobody is losing anything here. That is the test: no one is the worse for it.

Unlike shoplifting, no one is out his livelihood. Shoplifting is a small murder, because you are causing someone to lose his livelihood, the bread from his mouth that keeps him alive.

And anyway, you might have misunderstood; I think you implied it all went by fast, and you weren't sure what you heard.

And anyway, she might indeed have made it herself. Really made it totally herself.

Kashrus, that's another matter entirely.

Dolly Welsh

Wed, Jun 18 2014, 12:12 am

If someone hands you an obviously hand-made sweater, you ask if they made it for you, such a nice thing to do! If they then "confess" they got it at a craft fair and they didn't make it, fine.

But to wonder if the hostess made this or that food being offered guests at her house? Oh dear. None of your business.

If SHE wants to talk about how she made it, fine. But nobody gets to demand to know. SHE has to offer the information.

If she wants to claim she made it, and didn't, that isn't a biggie, unless you are interviewing her for a chef position. Then she had better tell the truth because she is being hired as a competent cook. Or perhaps a prospective wife. (But that story worked out well, hee hee! Hashem put the right words in her mouth.)

If someone lies all the time about everything, claims she made her throw pillows, curtains, rug, children's clothes, and sheitel, and makes a big, false, deal out of her fabulous, falsely claimed, craft abilities. Then, you can get cross and call her on her endless and self-aggrandizing lies, maybe. But once?

Don't humiliate the woman. That would be much worse. Then someone WOULD be hurt, as opposed to this. Which you may have got wrong anyway.

invisiblecircus

Wed, Jun 18 2014, 4:21 am

amother wrote:

So, perhaps I totally misunderstood what she was saying, and she just meant you have to prepare them carefully even from the freezer. But I really don’t think I was mistaken.

Maybe she was saying you have to prepare them carefully but you missed the part whhere she said "so since I didn't have time, I bought these ones."

Maybe she was referring to how you would make them if you made them yourself but not claimimg to have actually made these.

Maybe she really did make them but bought ready-made pastry. I think things can look very professional if made with bought pastry.

Or maybe she really did lie for whatever reason. I don't know. Maybe you could check her garbage Wink

Raisin

Wed, Jun 18 2014, 4:24 am

You know what? I've never felt the need to lie about my cooking or not cooking a certain item. Maybe people who feel less confident in their cooking skills do, but why? I don't feel the need to lie about my lack of ability at creating perfect iced cookies. I would think someone was strange for lying about whether an item was homemade or not. Just because people lie in sitcoms does not make it right. Obviously, in certain cases, like the mother who would have been upset, it is understandable. But just so you would appear to be a better cook then you are?

Please don't excuse dishonesty.

However, it likely does not indicate anything seriously wrong with this person. However, if you or a family member has allergies, I might not trust her about food.

Of course, it is possible she made these things herself.

amother

Wed, Jun 18 2014, 4:46 am

self-actualization wrote:

I am a very honest person, the kind of person who "can not lie." However, when I was dating my husband, my sister and brother cooked us a Thanksgiving dinner. My husband turned to me and said - did you make this? I said - yes. (I didn't know how to cook, but I thought that this was a very important thing to stretch the truth over). Then he said - are you a good cook? And I said - yes. Later on he told me that this would have been a "make-it-or-break-it issue." I guess sometimes you just need to lie about cooking? It turns out that I am a pretty good cook, and I did commission my siblings to make the dinner, so neither of the statements were complete lies.

OMG! I did the same thing when I was dating my husband. He asked if I could cook, and I was too ashamed to say no, so I said yes, assumng if I'd try I'd succeed.

After I got married I was asking basic Q about cooking but did pretty well Smile

We laugh about it till today....

chavs

Wed, Jun 18 2014, 7:30 am

Op, are you seriously comparing shoplifting with someone saying they made some food you don't think looks home made(thus accusing them of lying)?!?
As I said before it really doesn't sound like you should be in a mentoring position. You are lacking derech eretz, being Dan lekaf zechus, as well as being a bit too deeply concerned over whether or not someone else might have lied, when in fact she might just be a really good cook. Do you not see the real problem here?

YALT

Wed, Jun 18 2014, 7:58 am

I did not read the whole thread. Just the first post since I see it on top of the page since it was posted.

All I could picture is my sister. She did an event lately for women (although it was a good few weeks ago) and she put out a beautiful spread as always. She had the miniature things and other stuff. She does patchke A LOT! and she did not take credit for those 4 pans of miniatures. But if you would see how she makes her cookies for shabbos.... she makes tiny cookies! rolling out each one, she makes teeny tiny rugelach! she makes all these fany cookies in so tiny you grab them by the handful like you'd grab candies. So she very possibly knows how to do something and was just explaining to someone that it's not that difficult if you know what you're doing. Not necessarily did she say that she MADE THEM THIS TIME. Or maybe she did make them.
And she does freeze a lot as well. So even when things taste fresh, she may have made it a week or two earlier and then pulled it out of the freezer that morning.

I am not bragging about my sister. I am so jealous that when she gets up at 5am she goes straight to the kitchen instead of lazying around like me. But I felt you should know there are capable women out there who can do these things. And they DO look like it's professionally made.

Kira

Wed, Jun 18 2014, 8:21 am

Dear OP, other posters have given some really good examples of ways to be dan l'chaf zechus. Since you are looking for different perspectives....

It can be quite unsettling when we hear something that doesn't ring true to us, perhaps you have a strong sense of justice which is why it bothered you? But, no I don't think it's anything for you to be worried about.

There are a few possible scenarios here:

1) She did actually make these impressive miniatures: In this case you have nothing to worry about, perhaps you could even take the opportunity to ask her for her recipe or tips on how to whip up something so fancy at such short notice!

2) You simply misunderstood her (as you said) or she unintentionally gave the wrong impression: again nothing to worry about.

3) She intentionally falsified for whatever reason: judge her favourably. Perhaps she 'lied' because she felt embarrassed, or slipped up just this one time and felt bad about it after etc

If you were to see this behaviour continually repeating itself or a situation where you had first hand evidence of a falsification which led to someone being harmed etc then that may be a reason to be concerned. However, even in cases like these it must be dealt with carefully.

Mazel tov for your friend, it sounded like a very yummy simcha!

Barbara

Wed, Jun 18 2014, 9:47 am

amother wrote:

IMNSHO, you did make it.

And it probably was her grandmother's cake recipe.