This is a real question Can ashkenazi eat in sephardic house

goodmorning

Wed, Jul 16 2014, 1:52 pm

MaBelleVie wrote:

You do realize that AFAIK it is only chabad and only regarding chalav stam that anyone practices this way? Other groups that are 100% makpid on chalak/ yashan/ bishul yisrael/ chalav yisrael etc even in others' homes are not makpid on keilim.

I know individual(s) who are makpid on keilim, even if their general "group" is not. Not that it's highly relevant; just pointing out that being makpid on keilim is a legitimate chumrah even amongst those whose group does not dictate it, and it should not be considered offensive.

(My guess is that more people are going to become makpid on cholov stam keilim due to concerns about treifos.)

I've learned something new today -- I never knew that sfardim don't toivel glass. (And I'm surprised, because it is explicit in the Shulchan Aruch YD 120:1 that glass requires tevilah.) Can OP possibly be referring to the difference of opinion between the Shulchan Aruch and the Rema as to whether glass can be used for both milchigs and fleishigs?

Ruchel

Wed, Jul 16 2014, 2:13 pm

There are some who won't eat, say, not glatt at others, and some who will.
Keilim is something I wasn't aware existed (for something kosher, not for something treif!) before internet.

sky

Wed, Jul 16 2014, 2:33 pm

Chayalle wrote:

We don't eat chalav stam and my sister does. We eat in her house, off her keilim, as per one of the most prominent poskim in Lakewood. She is very respectful of us and would never serve us Chalav Stam.

But I do respect your point. Anyone in doubt should ask their own Moreh Derech.

Could be we asked the same rov.
we are ~ yeshivish (not chabad). We do not eat off chalav stam keilim. By my parents we do eat off of their keilim for kibud av v'eim. My parents bought my DH his own milchig frying pan anyway so he would be more comfortable.

Simple1

Wed, Jul 16 2014, 2:54 pm

goodmorning wrote:

I've learned something new today -- I never knew that sfardim don't toivel glass. (And I'm surprised, because it is explicit in the Shulchan Aruch YD 120:1 that glass requires tevilah.) Can OP possibly be referring to the difference of opinion between the Shulchan Aruch and the Rema as to whether glass can be used for both milchigs and fleishigs?

As I said before, I'm Sfardi and never heard of not toveling glass. Maybe others can chime in. I also thought maybe OP is confusing with using same glass for milchig/fleishig - I heard of some Sfardim doing that, although many are makpid to keep separate sets.

2cents

Wed, Jul 16 2014, 4:44 pm

firsly, another sephardi saying that I've never heard of not toiveling glass. we don't toivel glazed china, despite the fact that it is glazed with glass, whereas ashkenazim do. and even that, many people do. I did my wedding china cuz I learned in my ashkenazi bais yaakov that it should be toiveled becaue of the glaze.

secondly, I'd question the entire premise of this thread. as I remember learning it, the obligation is on the owner of the dishes to toivel them, and is not an issur of eating off of not toivled dishes. that's why toiveling a gift before you give it to someone is an issue. if I recall correctly, its either done without a bracha or you have to be "koneh" it first on the recipients behalf. anyone have more knowledge on this?

Lady Godiva

Wed, Jul 16 2014, 5:04 pm

amother wrote:

I'm asking because sephardm hold that glass does not need to be tovled. However, Ashkenazi are not allowed to eat off of plates that haven't been tovled.

There's also other things but I'm starting with that because it's the one area that's stumping me.

Coukd you share your thoughts? Is it allowed? Thanks.

We're Sephardic and we absolutely do dip glass dishes. I've never heard of anybody who (keeps the laws of t'vilat kelim, yet) doesn't.

If they are religious, you can trust that their food and all their dishes are just as kosher as--or perhaps more kosher than!--yours.

What other things are you concerned about?

Chana Miriam S

Wed, Jul 16 2014, 5:19 pm

amother wrote:

I live in an ashkenazi community where we do not dunk plates unless they are made with actual glass.
further many sephardi differences have to do with bedi eved and lhatchila questions. Many times sephardi follows the more machmir opinion. I have zero issue with it nor does my rav, but if you think yours will, you should ask.

Chana Miriam S

Wed, Jul 16 2014, 5:23 pm

sky wrote:

Definitely vice versa. My neighbors are sefardi and their laws of bishul yisorel are much stricter in that a Jew has to do the actual cooking, where for ashkanezim it is enough that a Jew turned on the flame. So they cannot eat at many simchas where food is provided by a caterer.

I don't know about the glass. But we toivel plastic without a bracha. In my house we won't use it without (obviously not disposables) But I will eat by others who don't toivel plastic and may use it as part of their food prep.

you tovel PLASTIC? where are the sources for that? I am just curious because I never heard of that before.

I stand corrected. It's a minority opinion based on the idea that like glass, it can be melted down and reformed. [I]

Last edited by Chana Miriam S on Wed, Jul 16 2014, 5:53 pm; edited 1 time in total

Chana Miriam S

Wed, Jul 16 2014, 5:43 pm

I was curious so I looked in my book by Rav Binyamin Forst 'The Kosher Kitchen' in the index under Sephardic Custom.

Here are the topics mentioned:

Chalav Akum where non kosher animals are not found
eating dairy after meat
eating fish with dairy
Jewish participation in bishul akum
kashering from meat to dairy use
kashering glass
koshering to change utensil's use
ladle inserted in pareve pot
locust
nat bar nat
non ben yomo pot used for meat
pas palter
purchasing non kosher glass dishes
radish cut with meat knife
use of drinking glass for both meat and dairy (my ashkenas shul does this)
utensils washed together

He also refers to differences in terms of 'pareve food cooked in a clean meat pot' and differences based on ben yomo status and initial intention. Ultimately the biggest difference is that if an ashkenaz cookes something in a ben yomo dairy pot, they won't eat it with meat lehatchila but sephard could. BOTH allow it bedi eved and if inadvertently mixed with dairy food. As well as for leftovers that were cooked in a dairy pot initially but could be used with meat if leftover.

MaBelleVie

Wed, Jul 16 2014, 5:55 pm

andrea levy wrote:

I believe that according to the same opinion plastic may be used for both chalavi and besari (like glass).

Chana Miriam S

Wed, Jul 16 2014, 6:11 pm

MaBelleVie wrote:

I believe that according to the same opinion plastic may be used for both chalavi and besari (like glass).

The book I was using made reference to Minchas Yitzchak 3:77 and Shearim Metzuyanim Ba Halacha 37:4. I have not seen this with relation to using plastic as glass however it does give me some insight into why some are beginning to hold that stainless steel could be used once clean even if used for treif and would not need kashering.

sky

Wed, Jul 16 2014, 7:24 pm

andrea levy wrote:

Can I just say it is the biggest pain in the neck EVER!!!!
pitchers, ice pop molds, measuring cups all have to be toiveled. I rarely buy something just for fun at the dollar store because it has to be toiveled.

lavendar

Wed, Jul 16 2014, 8:37 pm

I'm Sephardic and dip my glass actually I never heard of anyone who doesn't . We do not have separate glass for meat and milk tho maybe your getting confused or maybe there are some ppl that don't dip glass and I didn't know about it .

The Happy Wife

Wed, Jul 16 2014, 10:07 pm

andrea levy wrote:

I believe Chabad holds that you need to toivel plastic.

DrMom

Wed, Jul 16 2014, 10:31 pm

andrea levy wrote:

Wouldn't that depend on whether the plastic is a thermoplastic or a thermoset?

Ruchel

Thu, Jul 17 2014, 11:33 am

There is no "Sefardic kashrus" unless you consider that a lite-MO and a shtark-chassidish who both are Ashky will do the same. And unless you think it's all the same, from Yekke to Toldos Ahron to Chabad to Litvak.