Is it possible to have a shomer negiya relationship?

freidasima

Mon, Aug 04 2014, 2:44 am

Monsey apology accepted. It is very different here than conservadox which we also have because the conservadox that I know realy on Conservative halochic psikos (and they exist in droves! See Rabbi Prof. David Golinkin's volumes of them) to give what they (but not most Orthodox rabbonim) consider halochic backing to what they do. For example, for some eating grilled kosher fish (on the same grill as treif fish at the same time) at a treif restaurant abroad - which they hold frum (with their various halochic explanations) but few Orthodox will hold from.

Dati lite on the other hand, will admit openly that they have absolutely no halochic backing for what they are doing and are doing it by their own decision, out of laziness, out of lack of caring etc. Not out of any ideology such as Conservadox.

As for amother above - I odn't think you have the slightest understanding of the real meaning of the term "achdus" is. Do you live in EY? If so you have seen achdus over the past month during the war. However there is achuds and there is achdus. Even with what is going on which is touching all of us, there are STILL groups in the population who do not feel it because their values are diametrically opposed to those of the rest of us here. Basic core values.

And that can't be whitewashed over. It has nothing to do with "badmouthing". A person has a right to believe, particularly a person who lives their life either by ideology or religious belief, that somone who belongs to their core group (of the same religion) who does not live by the same values is doing something seriously wrong, and that in their weltanschauung and belief, that seriously wrong thing is affecting not only the person who is doing it but THEM as well. Meaning their lives depend not only on their own actions but those of the entire group. The Jewish concept of that moshiach would come if all Jews would keep two shabbosim with shmiras shabbos as should be. Meaning the Jew who isn't keeping shabbos is therefore affecting MY life and not only his. I'm not saying I believe in that, but I'm saying that is a core concept it every ideology and religion.

So what do you think, we should go around and say that those Jews who call themselves religious but are not putting on tefilin daily are hunky dory Jews? They aren't. They may be wonderful people but they aren't wonderful Jews. And unlike the secular, the chilonim who don't buy into the system at all, DAVKA reminding this group of Jews that they aren't ok sometimes does make a difference, because they were brought up ok, most of them, they know the rules, and they are just disregarding them, as I wrote to Monsey above, not out of ideology but out of laziness, out of laissez faire, out of whatever. And sometimes when such Jews are reminded that they are being very very not OK as Jews, their conscience acts up and does bring them back to mainstream normative Judaism.

Hence my daughters' colleagues or neighbors who did try to set them up with such guys believing that they came from good backgrounds (the guys) and just went somewhat off for whatever reason but they know what is right and maybe getting to know the right girl will turn the switch back to "on" for them when it comes to Yiddishkeit.

So let's get real and not have any mealty mouthed statements here about "bad mouthing" "making divisions" and "separating ourselves". Let's be real. We ARE separate from them, the divisions exist, we aren't "making them" and as for "bad mouthing", are we supposed to say "wow, yay wonderful that they eat without brochos, that they don't daven and that they are not makpid on chillul shabos in bishul, how FABULOUS!!" - ??? They are wrong, particularly if they are trying to call themselves Dati (religious) and they know they are wrong and such Jews who still care enough to call themselves Dati often need a gentle reminder about it. Whitewashing never helped anyone become better. And yes, I do believe that a Dati person who is makpid on davening, brochos, shabbos is a better Orthodox Person (not necessarily a "better person", that's something else) than one who is not.

amother

Mon, Aug 04 2014, 3:59 pm

sequoia wrote:

Jews allow eating junk food all day -- there's no halacha against it. Doesn't mean it's a good idea.

Today we know that it's better not to have children with your cousin. Ok?

Actually "In April 2002, the Journal of Genetic Counseling released a report which estimated the average risk of birth defects in a child born of first cousins at 1.7–2.8% over an average base risk for non-cousin couples of 3%, or about the same as that of any woman over age 40" http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/C.....pects

The Torah tells us which relationships to avoid, and the others are OK. Rabbinical, Chassidish, and Sephardic families especially have often married their cousins. I dated my cousin because our parents set it up and we had a lot in common. He wasn't my first cousin but even if he was that wouldn't have stopped me.

And technically, since we are commanded to guard our health, eating junk food all day would be as permissible as smoking, I reckon. Smile

ally

Tue, Aug 05 2014, 4:36 am

amother wrote:

The added risk you cite there is not at all insignificant.
And I wonder how much that average increases if you look at families where cousins have been intermarrying for multiple generations.