Please, Non Vaccinators ONLY - I need your help

Dolly Welsh

Mon, Aug 11 2014, 12:33 pm

amother wrote:

For those who are immunosupressed (adults and not babies) why do u think they are at risk for diseases they have been vaccinated against? Btw for those who vaccinate there is a shingles vaccine and NO I will not put neurotoxins in my child because someone else can get the measles BUT I will.avoid eating peanuts in their presence.

Because vaccinations wear off over time. Everybody over, say, forty, getting lots of titers (blood tests), to test for that, and getting boosters if needed, is a huge job, and isn't going to happen.

Measles can kill.

What you won't put into your child the entire neighborhood's children have had put into them. Yet there are lots of children running around doing fine.

I am against new-fangled notions but vaccines have had many decades of proven performance and have not been seen to do harm.

Do not cite one case in a billion. There is no way to remove all risk from life. There is such a thing as taking risk because the alternative is riskier and worse, and this is one of those.

Dolly Welsh

Mon, Aug 11 2014, 12:41 pm

amother wrote:

Does anyone know anyone personally that got sick from someone unvaccinated? My neighbor who doesn't give shots because it 'weakens the immune system' doesn't believe that she's risking hurting other people because she never saw anyone got sick from her kids, so it must just be not true.

Getting sick is not something that can be seen.

Your neighbor has no science background. She seems unaware that diseases are caused by microbes, which are too small to be seen by the naked eye. You can't see them infecting people. She also doesn't know that it takes time to come down with a disease after you have caught it.

Your neighbor is not a genius.

The destruction of the infants and oldsters has not yet happened because most people still vax. So not vaxing is not killing that many people yet. However, there is a website that keeps track of such preventable deaths, but I haven't bothered to upset myself by looking for it. I suppose you could google and find it. I think it's called Body Count or something.

rachel91

Mon, Aug 11 2014, 12:42 pm

I would also like to ask, just out of curiousity, everyone who chooses not to vaccinate, why?
Ok, I understand that some vaccines have harmful stuff inside them, but there are so many vaccinated children who are just fine getting vaccines.
My mum always said that taking epidurals, could or even would be bad for the baby( eventhough many many babies are born with epidurals).
Guess this fits under the same category more or less.

I just never gave the vaccination matter too much thought, since it seems like a common thing to do and it wouldn't even cross my mind not to do it. There is even one mandatory vaccination here.

So that basically is my question, why? And it is really out of curiousity.

black sheep

Mon, Aug 11 2014, 12:46 pm

I didn't read all the posts but, yes, I do know someone personally who got sick from someone unvaccinated. my friend's baby caught whooping cough from an unvaccinated child. in the older (unvaccinated) child, it was a very bad cough, and he was "almost over it" according to his mother, and she felt she couldn't shelter him from other humans for the course of the illness, which can last four months. she didn't tell the baby's mother what her child had until after the baby got sick. the baby was hospitalized and was very sick for a long time. now he is four, and still has respiratory issues from it.

Dolly Welsh

Mon, Aug 11 2014, 12:53 pm

He's lucky he's alive. Other babies have not made it.

Rachel91, "Ok, I understand that some vaccines have harmful stuff inside them, "

THAT ISN'T TRUE.

At one time mercury was used as a preservative, and even that in such tiny amounts it didn't bother anybody. Some opined that this mercury caused problems. That was never proved.

MERCURY HASN'T BEEN USED FOR DECADES. They use something else now.

There is no reason NOW to not vaccinate. There never was, actually.

Ima2NYM_LTR

Mon, Aug 11 2014, 12:55 pm

amother wrote:

while my story is not as horrible as black sheeps friend, my daughter did get sick because of a non-vax family

My daughter was 3, had only had her first chicken pox vaccine which on its own cannot offer complete coverage- the booster given at age 4 makes the coverage more complete. There was a few non-vax family at her school and they brought in and started spreading chicken pox among themselves and a few other kids. The school sent home a note saying there was chicken pox at school and I ignored it because I figured she would be fine a few days later she had a fever and then broke out in spots.

Luckily her case was mild and ended quickly. This is because she already had the first vaccine. But because the other family chose not to vaccinate, my daughter missed multiple days of school, I missed multiple days of work (unpaid) and we missed a family reunion.

So yes, un-vaccinated kids can and do spread disease to vaxed or partially vaxed, or not-yet-vaxed or immunosuppressed people even when they are symptom free.

5*Mom

Mon, Aug 11 2014, 1:02 pm

amother wrote:

Has she ever seen someone receive a traumatic brain injury from riding a bike without a helmet? a child injured in a car accident from not being properly restrained? a baby choking on a grape? If she hasn't seen it, it must just be not true.

I'm not exactly the rah-rah vaccines type, although I do vax mostly, but it's really hard to find the words for this kind of *logic.*

rachel91

Mon, Aug 11 2014, 1:05 pm

Dolly Welsh wrote:

So my question stays, why?
I'm not looking to bash people, just want to know why. So maybe someone (who doesn't vaccinate) could explain it to me?

mille

Mon, Aug 11 2014, 1:07 pm

rachel91 wrote:

Another question: how could someone vaccinated get sick from someone unvaccinated?
I do give my kids all vaccines, besides chicken pox, since it's not very common here. (They both had it already anyways).

In addition to the groups Dolly mentioned, there are those who are unable to receive a certain vaccination due to an allergy to the ingredients included (this was a lot more common when egg was an ingredient in many vaccines, but if I remember correctly it is now really just the flu vaccine that has egg these days). There are also those who simply do not gain immunity to the disease they were vaccinated against. Vaccines do not confer immunity 100% of the time, based on a variety of factors. This is why vaccination relies on herd immunity -- the concept that the majority of those you will interact with have been vaccinated and have been conferred immunity, which makes it less likely for one of these communicable diseases to spread within a community. Those who elect NOT to vaccinate children who ARE able to get the vaccine (and would be conferred immunity) weaken this effect.

rachel91 wrote:

Ok, I understand that some vaccines have harmful stuff inside them

I'm curious if anyone can bring forth valid scientific studies published in peer reviewed journals that show that the "added" ingredients in CURRENT vaccines are harmful (also, define "harmful"). Thimerosal? It's really in very few vaccines anymore, and most certainly not the ones most argued by the anti-vax crowd (MMR, Tdap/DTaP, Hep B/A, IPV, Varicella...). Source: http://www.fda.gov/BiologicsBl.....96228 (scroll down if you just want to see the chart, read the whole thing if you want to know the FDA's opinion on thimerosal and what has been done to remove thimerosal from many vaccines)

rachel91

Mon, Aug 11 2014, 1:10 pm

Ima2NYM_LTR wrote:

Many people here, who vaccinate do not vaccinate against chicken pox, the vaccine doesn't even come into the 'timetable of vaccinations' here. Is it different in the US?

Chana Miriam S

Mon, Aug 11 2014, 1:13 pm

amother wrote:

Wow, what absolutely obnoxious responses.

OP, my strongest suggestion is to avoid processed foods as much as possible, sticking with whole foods and low sugar (which does NOT mean subbing fake sugars).
Also important is soap, shampoos, etc. Use natural, organic products. Keep hazardous cleaning chemicals out of your home. It's not just about keeping a child from getting into them and drinking them, G-d forbid, but also keeping your whole family from breathing in that toxic stuff.
Good luck, and please don't feel pressure and intimidation from hateful fear mongers.

also, make sure your child rolls around in poison ivy and eats mushrooms growing in the wild. they are natural and organic. oh yes, and make sure that you keep your child warm and dry. you know how getting cold can make you sick.

oh, I am sorry was the post I quoted serious? if you think that using natural organics will keep you from getting smallpox or polio, you should take the time to research this properly.

Last edited by Chana Miriam S on Mon, Aug 11 2014, 1:17 pm; edited 1 time in total

Dolly Welsh

Mon, Aug 11 2014, 1:21 pm

rachel91 wrote:

So my question stays, why?
I'm not looking to bash people, just want to know why. So maybe someone (who doesn't vaccinate) could explain it to me?

Because a skillful propagandist convinced them?

My Junk Folder is full of emails that would make you weep about people in foreign countries who need my help just this once. And serious-sounding requests for me to confirm my credit card information. A seasoned, highly paid, quite smart executive I know with a master's degree recently fell for one of those, and his computer had to be scrubbed of viruses and malware.

So, people can be snookered!!!!

Even smart ones!

That particular executive had no background in the credit card industry or the financial industry, and missed the subtle point that legal stuff like that is only done on paper, through the post, never email. And even things on paper need to be looked at with a careful eye.

Anyway, they got him. They got him good. Fortunately it was caught fast.

Writing scary copy is a well developed art and it catches people. The only defense against it is to use one's noggin and see the big picture.

The big picture is that the mainstream way is mainstream exactly because it works. There is a certain safety in being in the middle of the herd. The outliers invited to take shiny dime from strangers, at the edge of the herd, get picked off.

causemommysaid

Mon, Aug 11 2014, 2:04 pm

black sheep wrote:

she should sue the pants off the idiot who brought her child into contact with an unvaxed infant.

if that baby had not made it, the other mother would have blood on her hands.

evil comes in many forms. there comes a point where stupidity crosses the line into pure evil.

I know I sound dramatic. I dont care. How could someone do such a thing?

ShloimysMommy

Mon, Aug 11 2014, 3:32 pm

amother wrote:

Well let's see.. there was a family I know of who didn't vaccinate any of their kids -- hey none of their friends did either... and their 19 month old daughter caught something "natural" ... and almost died -- in the end she did survive -- but was left totally deaf and blind. Her name was Helen Keller... you might have heard of her.

More recently, I personally know of three little Jewish boys who were immuno-suppressed due to chemo & died, two of them following exposure to chicken pox & the third from measles. Obviously none of their parents knew they were being exposed to these diseases -- the carriers were not yet showing symptoms at the time of exposure -- by the time you know someone is sick, they have been carrying -- and shedding ---- virus for days.

One of these boys had been battling leukemia for 10 years -- and died of chicken pox. You have no idea how much fun that shiva call was... not...

As one of our doctors once said, you never really appreciate the disease you didn't get.

ShloimysMommy

Mon, Aug 11 2014, 3:37 pm

Oh I actually forgot --- I myself almost died of whooping cough as a baby -- and my parents DID vaccinate -- but at the time of exposure I was still a baby had not yet had the full series of vaccinations & did not yet have full immunity. There was a rather dramatic story in the family about an uncle who saw me & who had the presence of mind to get me breathing again when I was unable to --- I'm sure my children & grandchildren (all of them suitably vaccinated) are eternally grateful to him.

So um.. yes... just because your neighbor has not actually seen it (yet), does not mean it doesn't happen.

SJcookie

Mon, Aug 11 2014, 4:13 pm

sequoia wrote:

That's good!

But, non-vaxers, falling prey to anti-science conspiracy theories, are hurting others as well as their own kids, as Dolly explained. So strong dissaproval is in order.

Exactly.
If someone is making a stupid choice that only affects themselves, I say live & let live.
But this foolish decision puts OTHER children at risk.

I have a cousin who has 5 totally unvaccinated children. She is a nice and friendly person, but you can bet that we never invite them over or take our children to their home. Not for a cup of coffee. Not for a Shabbat meal. Not even to pick up something quickly from their home. Nothing. So, we basically never see each other.
The reality of such seclusion is unfortunate, but the safety and health of my children come first.

MaBelleVie

Mon, Aug 11 2014, 4:46 pm

Dolly Welsh wrote:

How many hours of research did it take you to come to that astonishing conclusion?