We are MO but our child would benefit from more right school

amother

Sun, Oct 05 2014, 2:30 pm

Dolly Welsh wrote:

One, pull the kid. Home school. You sound smart enough to do it, quite smart enough. One does not have to be a genius to home school, just up to speed.

Two, unless you are in love with your middle aged locks and your hairdresser, figure out which synthetic wig will be for you. This is not an issue.

If your skirts are too pencil, de-pencil them a little.

Happiness awaits. But you have to have the guts to make a few changes. You will be prettier and your kid won't be pulverized so you will feel it was worth it in time. In not very much time. You will all feel better pretty quickly.

I really do admire your lucid analysis of the situation and your language sounds wonderfully sympathetic to your brutalized and half-dead child.

Kanekalon! It's not a non-stick frying pan. Google it and you will see. It's even easier than tying a tichel. Tichels are cool too but this will be easier for you.

You get the Insightful Mother of the Week Award.

Dolly ... whatever you are smoking... PLEASE tell us all how to get some...

PEACE!!!

Dolly Welsh

Sun, Oct 05 2014, 2:43 pm

Thanks for the peace, but why are you posting anonymously when I am not.

I am willing to do the Dolly visibly.

I don't think you can have everything.

As a BT I have lived that you can change a lot about your life and it can be better not worse, though so freaky-seeming at the time. I have taken risks.

Pulling your kid out of school is major, but OP vividly describes his change of personality for the worse where he is.

As pulling him out may not be practical, and OP says her head, her venerable and dear head, is a problem, and as nice wigs are a few clicks away (you might give away the first few but you find one, it's not rocket science), I put in my two cents.

One can look ok a little more skirted and still look organized, with-it, and grown-up, and anyway, a few snotty glances from other people who think you have gone over to The Ugly Side are worth not having a hurting child.

Oh baloney. Go over to The Ugly Side. With nicer hair you will still outshine them all anyway. And you can rinse your own cropped hair something interesting, for private moments. No one has to know what fab, or even day-glo, color is lurking under your chic, classic wig with interesting shades, and nice texture and movement. Yes. Synthetics can offer that. For fifty dollars.

But let us concentrate on the hurting child and forget the fashion passion.

sazn75

Sun, Oct 05 2014, 2:49 pm

To all posters, thank you so much. You have all given me something to think about. I was going around in circles, and now I feel like at least I have questions I can ask myself. I will def. be calling R' Horowitz, thinking about the tutoring option, and looking into North Jersey schools (any recommendations in that regard would be appreciated as well) Disappointed to hear Darchei Noam has the bully/big money issue as well. I am so naive. I just found out my child's tormenter comes from wealth. I suppose it is too much to ask for a school that adheres to a strict anti-bullying policy? I know that Darchei Torah in Far Rockaway has a great one in place, but of course that commute is out of the question for a young boy.

Another option we were entertaining was Yavneh with a private rebbe, which is a version of some suggestions. Not that it would stop me, but I am wary of this job description being ripe for exploitation. Where could I look for someone genuine?

To the poster who suggested I 'loosen my skirts etc', I absolutely hear you in regards to greater vs personal happiness. The subversion of ego is a universal challenge for parents.

amother

Sun, Oct 05 2014, 2:57 pm

sazn75 wrote:

I really think you would love YNJ!
Its about a half hour away from monsey, exit 165 on Garden state, so the commute is really not bad.
their level of academia is amazing!
They also have a dedicated psychology staff that deals with any issues (ive personally encountered more than one case of a gifted child) I interned in that department and what was amazing to see was that any principal rebbi etc. was very intouch with each student and his/her needs. family situations etc.
please let me know if u have any questions.

Disclaimer- I have nothing vested in the school, was never a student or paid staff. volunteered for a few months....

granolamom

Sun, Oct 05 2014, 3:20 pm

Dolly Welsh wrote:

Yes. But I did say OP will need to bring in tutors. That is going to be absolutely necessary with so gifted a child.

It shouldn't be too hard. These are hard times. If OP economizes on the boy's tuition by pulling him out, she will have plenty of money for highly paid, excellent tutors.

OP will make a small schoolroom, and will have somebody else present in the house. The door to the schoolroom will remain open.

It it's too lonely, another boy or boys may be sitting there in time, too, learning.

I'm not so sure, dolly.
a 'good' gemara rebbe for a child runs $60+ per hour where I live (five towns) and they are not so easy to find either. if you do the math, you're not economizing all that much especially if you need to bring in other instructors (for any other subjects you want help in).
in theory, yeah, you just hire someone who's learning or teaching in the morning, but in reality these guys are often teaching or in school in the afternoon or watching their kids so the wife can work, and finding someone young who is also a good teacher isnt so simple. the local yeshiva rebbeim are more expensive, less flexible with time and also, often already have other jobs. its surely doable, but not so easy as just deciding.
and, while I am loving homeschooling on most days, it is not without problems. sure, I get to wear what I want, but the rest of my life has been downsized.
and what are you talking about keeping the door open and other boys sitting in there too? we dont have random kids joining our schoolroom (which is our dining room). we have to put in some effort to keep things from getting too lonely.
I agree that homeschooling is a very good option if OP wants to do it -and doesnt already have a paid out of the home job, but lets not glamorize it.

Dolly Welsh

Sun, Oct 05 2014, 3:26 pm

Maybe something less stellar would be appropriate now. He is not fifteen.

Yes. We are all poorer now.

About the door to the school room being open, I was glancing at the problem of a man being in the house with OP home: yechidus. Nothing fancy.

About another boy sitting there too, with his parents splitting the cost of the tutor, that meant there might be another family near OP with similar needs. Not necessarily bullying, just the desire to have a tutor instead of the school, for one reason or another.

Yes. I fully agree it takes a special person, not just anybody to tutor kids in their homes, well.

It's a trade. Some will be able to and many won't. Finding a good one is work, and when you do find one, it's special. And another family might want to join with you on that.

It's hard to find any proper, excellent, appropriately skilled professional, to do anything, but we find them.

amother

Sun, Oct 05 2014, 4:35 pm

You sound like an amazing and insightful mother. Please do send him to a more right wing /advanced learning school if that is what you see he needs. That is what my husband's parents did and it was the most amazing thing they could have ever done for him. They gave him the opportunity to become himself. Really.

Yes, my husband ended up yeshivish as opposed to the very b'shitah MO community he came from. But he gets along with everyone, and there is respect on both sides. And he is SO happy in his learning and where he is in life. I am forever grateful to my MIL for doing what I know was so hard for her, but what he truly needed. And my in laws get a tremendous amount of nachas from him.

anon bc of info about my husband

amother

Sun, Oct 05 2014, 5:10 pm

op- another amother who thinks you are an incredible mother! I also suggest looking in to YNJ- I don't personally send there but have a friend who does. She is open about the fact that her kids are some of the most right wing kids there but chooses it for its education and professionalism. I think if you can find a school that has stronger limudei kodesh while not being foreign to you hashkafically that would be ideal. I don't know how tuition assistance works or if you need it but I think its a pretty expensive school.

another idea is YBH in Passaic- It's supposedly more to the right then YNJ and I think all the mothers cover their hair to an extent-aka few might just wear a baseball cap but I think most cover fully- not sure but just someplace else to look into.

A third- MO option is a school in teaneck forgot the name I think theres a noam in the name. don't know the school but really like the principal's wife Smile

. I know someone from Passaic sends there.

nylon

Sun, Oct 05 2014, 5:32 pm

Schools in Bergen County include Noam, YNJ, Moriah, Yavneh, and BPY. YNJ is considered among the more RW of that group (though left of anything in Passaic).

None of them are cheap, unfortunately.

I would encourage you to ask around about these schools' relative strengths and weaknesses. While more right wing schools tend to devote more time to limudei kodesh in general, each school is a little different. (ETclarify: None of the schools I mentioned are RW, I am making a general statement now.) Some schools offer more individualization or opportunities to stretch. Every school will involve a set of compromises.

Dolly, if only it were so simple as one's attire. My skirts are not the issue I would have with a more right wing school. I can dress the part easily--my ideas are what conflict.

Last edited by nylon on Mon, Oct 06 2014, 11:17 am; edited 1 time in total

saw50st8

Mon, Oct 06 2014, 4:46 am

sazn75 wrote:

We are a Modern Orthodox family, living in the Monsey area. I dont cover my hair and we do have a TV, computer in the home. Right now we send our children to a MO 'tzioni' school. We are seriously considering pulling one child out. The reason: for about two years we have had the strong sense that he is not having his full potential met or even lightly tapped in the limudei kodesh department. We feel like he, from all our others, has incredible potential specifically in this area, and could become something great if given the opportunity. We were vacillating for a while, because of our own hashkafas and because we have others in this school. However, things have come to a head now because he is being mercilessly bullied in this school. We have tried it all, from talking to the parents, to talking to the teachers, the administration, etc.... Our once sparkly child is coming home dejected and sad. This is pushing us towards removing him from what is a toxic environment and placing him in a school that can open up what we think is amazing learning potential. We are looking into Darchei Noam because I fell in love with the anti bullying policy and it seems like a very positive environment where boys love to learn. My problem: one look at me and they'll laugh in my face, or I could just wear a teichel to the interview, but I feel like that is being so dishonest. In any event, one chance encounter between me and a teacher in Evergreen, and the jig is up Smile

So I guess, in my long winded post, I am asking for input on several issues: 1) Does anyone know anything about Darchei Noam, 2) is it confusing/impossible for a child of MO parents to be placed in a more yeshivish environment (because as his parents, based on who he is, we feel he would thrive) 3) Will the administration immediately reject us and so dont bother trying.
Thanks in advance for any insights!

I grew up in a MO family in Monsey, who sent to YSV.

One really big challenge is that your child will constantly be told that your family hashkafa is wrong. Sometimes overtly, sometimes really subtly. It's often hard to deal with. My mother didn't cover her hair and we had a TV etc etc etc. It can work (especially with Rabbi Horowitz who is one of the nicest people!), but you should consider looking at Bergen County schools.

Tablepoetry

Mon, Oct 06 2014, 6:51 am

chani8 wrote:

You need to move your son out of that school, no doubt.

But if you move him to the right, then you need to start covering your hair, and toss the TV. Both of those are good things anyway, if you ask me. Wink

Not a good idea at all. It's never a good idea to chuck your lifestyle just to fit into a particular school. Been there, done that.

It might seem 'minor' to start covering your hair, but it's actually quite major, and changes your identity and your image. It's a chain reaction.
You might start covering, and throwing out the TV, and then discover it really doesn't work for you. Or for your dh, or for the other kids. The siblings may become resentful of how the home has changed just because their brother enrolled in a certain school.

And by the time you wake up and you or the kids feel uncomfortable in this new skin.....it's too late. The boy is happy at his new school, and you can't just pull him out.

So I'd advise treading very carefully. Choosing a school that forces a change in lifestyle is usually a pretty bad choice.

kollel wife

Mon, Oct 06 2014, 10:10 am

I've been following this with interest as I grew up modern orthodox and became yeshivish.

But I would like to say a different thing as a mother of 22 years.
I would not recommend home schooling as a solution to being the victim of bullying. Your child needs a healthy social environment to build (restore) his self confidence. To me home schooling would run the risk of harming him socially - sort of like running away from the problem.

I'm not against home schooling at all. So please don't bash me.

Covering hair could be difficult or easy. I'm sure to shul you cover your hair with something. If you go with that look maybe cover a bit more you'd probably do ok. You'd have to try it out. But finding the best (most suitable) school is really the most important!!!

Much hatzlocho.

Ruchel

Mon, Oct 06 2014, 10:24 am

Several plans:

Get a wiggy haircut (I have a chassidishe friend who did it, she had a heter to uncover for health but doesn't want comments, so she got wiggy like a fringe/bangs).
Find a slightly kiruv oriented school or "community school with strong yeshivish body" or one who simply doesn't enforce rules for parents outside of maybe shomer mitzvos, for ex.
Make the jump and cover/where they can see you. I know of moms who put on a skirt on pants or long closed coat or hat etc to pick up.

Chayalle

Mon, Oct 06 2014, 10:33 am

My nephew goes to Darchei Noam. They are not in the slightest yeshivish, though my sister covers her hair, elbows, knees, etc.......and identifies with mainstream Orthodoxy. Assuming there are others like my sister who send there, I don't think they would bat an eyelash meeting an MO parent at school functions.

Some kids will naturally gravitate to a religious stream different that the one they were raised in. I have a brother who became Chassidish, and I gravitated toward Yeshivish, unlike most of my family. As others have stated, you are a special parent, indeed, to recognize your child's uniqueness and respect and nurture it.

The DH of a close friend of mine grew up MO and became right-wing yeshivish. His mother - a lovely person whom my kids call Bubby, since they spent so much time with her grandkids - covers her hair and wears skirts when she comes to Lakewood.

Wishing you much Hatzlacha making the right choices for your individual child.

amother

Mon, Oct 06 2014, 11:47 am

I think that there is a misconception about the level of limudei kodesh in the MO schools versus the more right wing schools.
My personal experience has been rather interesting. My boys were in more RW/yeshivish schools. I searched for a better secular education for them. I thought that I would have to compromise on the level of limudei kodesh. Let me just say that I was pleasantly surprised.

I learned from experience that a good MO school can have a good limudei kodesh program as well.

I agree with pulling your child out of a bad situation. But why do you feel that a school where your family does not fit in will be a solution? Your child is suffering where he is. Any transition is hard enough. I would focus on a transition that is as smooth as possible without any unnecessary hurdles.

I agree with checking out the Northern NJ schools. There are busloads of kids from Monsey going there every day.