Are there rabannim who hold it's assur to have a smartphone?

shabbatiscoming

Tue, Oct 28 2014, 11:56 pm

amother wrote:

Quote:

how is it adultery?

Not paskening, I'm not a rav.

I'm just a wife of someone with an internet problem.
It sure feels like it sometimes--certainly it's a betrayal.

that is YOUR opinion. It is an emotional one.
Not all women who have husbands who may look at [filth] or other inappropriate things feel betrayed. Its not correct but no betrayal is felt.

m in Israel

Wed, Oct 29 2014, 12:12 am

amother wrote:

All those thngs you mentioned are very, very rare.
Men seeing naked woman on their phones happen everyday. It's Giluy Arayos, 'ya know.

Seeing a naked woman is NOT giluy arayos. It is the issur of "lo sasuru. . .", usually simply referred to as the chiyuv of "shmiras ainayim" -- but that is NOT the same thing as giluy arayos.

As to the earlier amother (or is it the same one?) who said "I even heard one paskind it is even Yichud for a man to be alone with his iphone", this is how rumors get started. What you are quoting was not a psak Halacha! R' Matisyahu Salomon, shlita (the mashgiach of Lakewood) said in widely quoted speech "If we would be living in the times of the chachamim, they'd be gozer issur yichud on the internet." He was making a hashkafic point in quite a powerful way. But he was talking about all internet, not specifically iphones, and he was definitely NOT "paskining". (I also don't think he was specifically talking about men).

FTR, Neither I nor my husband have a smart phone, we have filtered internet on a computer in public location in our home that we got for various reasons after discussing it with my husband's RY. I think having unfiltered internet in one's house is risky and wrong. But hyperbolic comments like the ones above do not help anyone see your point of view.

amother

Wed, Oct 29 2014, 12:17 am

shabbatiscoming wrote:

and my question is "why is an electrical device something that a rav has to give an ok on?"
Personally I dont ask a rav if I can use xyz.
And to this poster not everyone holds by those rabbanim that you are talking about.
No rav that I know holds that it s wrong. I think any rav that I would ask would look at me funny for asking at all.

There was never, ever a generation where anyone could have such easy access to such prostitution (I hope that's the word - זנות in hebrew).

The Gedolai Hador in Israel: Rav Elyashiv, Ovadia Yosef, Rav Elyashiv, Rav Steinman and more, have realized long ago that this was a seroius issue and have been fighting about it for years. Only recently, did the rabanim in America begin to realize the same, and that is why they had that massive gathering at Madison calcium last year.

Hopefully the Rabbanim you go by will very soon come to see how many familes have been ruined due to an unblocked
internet, and how many people are addicted and exposed to the most inappropriate things by a split second touch of a screen.

May Hashem watch over you and your family, because holding such a device at home so openly and freely, is more dangerous than walking a tightrope. I have a block, and my husband and I both each know half of the password to open the filter when we really need something.

anon because I know there will be protests, but what can I do, this is the sad reality of our days.

amother

Wed, Oct 29 2014, 12:23 am

m in Israel wrote:

Thank you for giving us all the exact info and Rav Mattisyahu's quote. The way you are so raged yourself about this topic just shows how serious you know it is. Kol Hakavod to you and your husband who have a block and Kosher phone (I assume). My husband and I, parents siblings and inlaws all have the same. Each should ask his own Rav regarding a psak, but in general, it is extremely important for all to know that consulting with a rav regarding this matter is a must.

blossoming

Wed, Oct 29 2014, 12:30 am

shabbatiscoming wrote:

that is YOUR opinion. It is an emotional one.
Not all women who have husbands who may look at [filth] or other inappropriate things feel betrayed. Its not correct but no betrayal is felt.

1. You don't know what really goes on behind the scenes, and how many heartbreaking cases are being dealt by the Rabbanim who know.

2. Not all husbands look at p*rn, but they very much may someday, being that it is so easy to see, as nobody knows what your viewing on a tiny screen of a phone (as opposed to browsing on a PC at home.)

amother

Wed, Oct 29 2014, 2:02 am

I'm a BT and most of my extended family is either not frum or not even jewish, and they have no filters, so of course they have easy access to [filth]. As far as I know, they're productive members of society, not [filth] addicts. Maybe the frum community has such a problem with this issue because they're so uptight about s-x, and that when a frum man gets easy access to perversity, he jumps at the chance to taste forbidden fruit. The rest of society just isn't so impressed with [filth]. It's normal to have viewed [filth] at least once, and it's regarded as 'lowly' or 'for the lonely' or as 'f0replay', but certainly not bad or sinful.

shabbatiscoming

Wed, Oct 29 2014, 2:05 am

amother wrote:

Quote:

There was never, ever a generation where anyone could have such easy access to such prostitution (I hope that's the word - זנות in hebrew).

Really? Prostitution is all around. One just has to know where to look. Even before phones and before newspapers there was propstitution. Dont kid yourself.

Quote:

The Gedolai Hador in Israel: Rav Elyashiv, Ovadia Yosef, Rav Elyashiv, Rav Steinman and more, have realized long ago that this was a seroius issue and have been fighting about it for years. Only recently, did the rabanim in America begin to realize the same, and that is why they had that massive gathering at Madison calcium last year.

Right those rabbanim are big rabbanim but they are for the charedi world. Not bashing here. Just showing that what those rabbanim say I dont necessarily go by. But that was not even my original point. It was that I dont live in a world where a rav would assur an electrical device. Just a different way of living.

Quote:

Hopefully the Rabbanim you go by will very soon come to see how many familes have been ruined due to an unblocked internet, and how many people are addicted and exposed to the most inappropriate things by a split second touch of a screen.

Many rabbanim in my world HAVE smart phones.

Quote:

May Hashem watch over you and your family, because holding such a device at home so openly and freely, is more dangerous than walking a tightrope. I have a block, and my husband and I both each know half of the password to open the filter when we really need something.

You do realize, I hope, that I am not in the minority here, having a smart phone with internet. Many many many many many many frum people do and we do just fine with not looking at things that we shouldnt. It is completely possible.

shabbatiscoming

Wed, Oct 29 2014, 2:07 am

blossoming wrote:

I never said that men were not looking at [filth] or other inapporpriate things. I am sure women out there are too.
My point was that some women do not feel betrayed. They just get on with life. Thats all.

chani8

Wed, Oct 29 2014, 2:16 am

shabbatiscoming wrote:

When you have the frum world categorizing [filth] in the same box as 'adultery,' no wonder the wives are freaking out about this. Also, the only time wives are allowed to be cuddled by husbands is when they are available for s-x, so s-x and love are intertwined, which is why viewing s-x feels like a betrayal of love.

shabbatiscoming

Wed, Oct 29 2014, 2:18 am

chani8 wrote:

If thats the way that these women feel, I feel very bad for them.
My point was that NOT all women feel this way. Some women know that their husbands may be looking at inappropriate things and just move on with life and loving their husbands anyway.

chani8

Wed, Oct 29 2014, 2:27 am

shabbatiscoming wrote:

In a normal situation, I totally agree. But in the frum world where the belief is that the home will suffer poverty and all kinds of terrible calamities from any perversity, and so the women cover from head to toe to protect their family, and the men encourage the women to be so tznius as to sit at the back of the bus, it is infuriating and a deep betrayal to the women to find that there are men who are sitting at the front of the bus watching [filth] on their phones.

amother

Wed, Oct 29 2014, 2:55 am

shabbatiscoming wrote:

amother wrote:

Quote:

There was never, ever a generation where anyone could have such easy access to such prostitution (I hope that's the word - זנות in hebrew).

Really? Prostitution is all around. One just has to know where to look. Even before phones and before newspapers there was propstitution. Dont kid yourself.

Quote:

Many rabbanim in my world HAVE smart phones.

Quote:

It was that I dont live in a world where a rav would assur an electrical device -
AN IPHONE IS NOT JUST AN ELECTRIC DEVICE! IT IS NOT AN ALARM CLOCK!

Many rabbanim in my world HAVE smart phones.
So Hatzlacha to them too, may Hashem protect them and there familes as well, Amen!

do just fine = what about the avaira of Shmiras Einayim?!

amother

Wed, Oct 29 2014, 3:50 am

shabbatiscoming wrote:

Huh? I mentioned that I am sure there are FRUM people out there that have smart phones with internet that are not looking at inappropriate things.
If they are not looking at inappropriate things, where does shmirat einyim fall into that?

How are you so sure they are not looking at inappropriate things? It's enough that one pop up pops up at the end is history...
I'm not talking about s*ex addicts. This could happen to any healthy biologically woman or guy...

blossoming

Wed, Oct 29 2014, 3:57 am

shabbatiscoming wrote:

there is no such thing as "getting on in life" with such a thing... you have to have unatrual inner power to play cool when your husband may be looking intently at many woman who are much prettier than you. And trust me, the world out there has gone so far, there will always be.

chani8

Wed, Oct 29 2014, 4:00 am

blossoming wrote:

I know women like this, and it's about acceptance and trust. They accept that there are other beautiful women out there and trust that their DH loves them. I envy women with such confidence.

shabbatiscoming

Wed, Oct 29 2014, 4:00 am

amother wrote:

you are correct. it can happen to anyone. and we who live in every day rea life deal with it and move on.

look we are not going to convince the other to change this. So lets agree to disagree. I love my smart phone (just got one about 5 months ago)

amother

Wed, Oct 29 2014, 4:06 am

blossoming wrote:

ok, I was going to write this under my screen name...but changed my mind. I caught my husband once looking at something inappropriate. At first I was beyond shocked. Then sad. Then we talked about it and this is the conclusion I came to: I love my husband and I know that he loves me. I know that he loves me in the physical way as well. I am not going to stop trusting him because I caught him looking at something inapporpriate. Its not going to alter our lives.
As for him looking at women that are prettier than me, big woop! So what? He is with me. I am his wife. SO he is looking. I could care less. I am the one he is being intimate with.
I have no idea if he has looked again. I have never caught him, but it didnt change the fabric of our marriage. I know my husband is a visual guy. I dont care what he is looking at. I am the one who he will be naked with and the one who he will be having relations with. I am not bothered by it.
I remember one time we were out to dinner. An EXTREMELY gorgeous, not very covered female passed our table. My husband oogled a bit. I actually laughed. It made no difference to the fact that I know that even if my husband sees many unclothed women, I am still the one that is there beside him at night and he loves me for me.
Thats all.

Last edited by amother on Wed, Oct 29 2014, 7:04 am; edited 1 time in total