Are there rabannim who hold it's assur to have a smartphone?

shabbatiscoming

Wed, Oct 29 2014, 7:13 am

chani8 wrote:

And I'm one of those women who starts crying and screaming and kicking if DH so much as glances at a pop-up. "You don't LOVE me if you're looking!!" The opposite extreme of you Shabbat. But you and women like you are my role models. Wink

ok, im just asking here, not bashing. I want to understand. why would you think that just because your husband may see a pretty girl in a pop up that he doesnt love you anymore? what is the connection? he is with YOU, not the pop up. Smile

amother

Wed, Oct 29 2014, 7:13 am

shabbatiscoming wrote:

you are correct. it can happen to anyone. and we who live in every day rea life deal with it and move on.

look we are not going to convince the other to change this. So lets agree to disagree. I love my smart phone (just got one about 5 months ago)

(I had a feeling I was going against a brick wall, as I realized you're from a different culture than me. Not that culture makes a difference on how high is your temptation when coming upon a colorful flashy device, but I won't go into that again....)

amother

Wed, Oct 29 2014, 7:30 am

amother wrote:

ok, I am going to write this under my screen name. I caught my husband once looking at something inappropriate. At first I was beyond shocked. Then sad. Then we talked about it and this is the conclusion I came to: I love my husband and I know that he loves me. I know that he loves me in the physical way as well. I am not going to stop trusting him because I caught him looking at something inapporpriate. Its not going to alter our lives.
As for him looking at women that are prettier than me, big woop! So what? He is with me. I am his wife. SO he is looking. I could care less. I am the one he is being intimate with.
I have no idea if he has looked again. I have never caught him, but it didnt change the fabric of our marriage. I know my husband is a visual guy. I dont care what he is looking at. I am the one who he will be naked with and the one who he will be having relations with. I am not bothered by it.
I remember one time we were out to dinner. An EXTREMELY gorgeous, not very covered female passed our table. My husband oogled a bit. I actually laughed. It made no difference to the fact that I know that even if my husband sees many unclothed women, I am still the one that is there beside him at night and he loves me for me.
Thats all.

I am the one who is going back and forth with you, and I must say when I read this post I gave you a hug. Yup, I did.
kol Hakavod to you being so easy about your husband showing interest somewhere elsewhere than you. And after reading this, I have an extra prayer of thanks to Hashem to add to my list tomorrow during shemone esrei, that my husband does not own any sort of iphone, which minimizes a daily battle-nisayon with guarding his eyes as opposed to passing by woman on the street or a poster by h&m when we shop once in a while - you can't compare that to having it all in your pocket 24 hours of the day.

And so again, I admire you but just know that most woman out there are not as blessed with a carefree nature in that aspect of life as you. We already have a poster who said she hates when she sees her DH looking at a pop up.

P.s.

I don't want to start again but what about the shmiras Einayim avaira? That is defiantly assur according to everyone, and so it may be fine with you, but it isn't fine with hashem...

m in Israel

Wed, Oct 29 2014, 7:35 am

amother wrote:

Thank you for giving us all the exact info and Rav Mattisyahu's quote. The way you are so raged yourself about this topic just shows how serious you know it is. Kol Hakavod to you and your husband who have a block and Kosher phone (I assume). My husband and I, parents siblings and inlaws all have the same. Each should ask his own Rav regarding a psak, but in general, it is extremely important for all to know that consulting with a rav regarding this matter is a must.

I am not sure which amother you are, so this conversation is a bit confusing. In any case, I most certainly do believe this is a very serious topic, which is why the hyperbole disturbs me so much. I think that when people say things like some of the earlier posters did, saying that being over on shmiras ainyim is the same thing as giluy arayos, or that there is an actual psak halacha forbidding yichud with an iphone, they HURT the cause, by making it sound like those who protest against unfiltered internet are crazy. (Not to mention the many other problems that arise from those who misquote gedolim, which is a whole different discussion) Similarly comments that imply that everyone with an iphone views [filth] just make those who are saying it sound nuts. There are obviously plenty of people with these devices who DON'T use them inappropriately.

It is also interesting that you are so focused on the pritzus involved in unfiltered internet. There are so many other reasons to be hesitant as well -- in fact the R' Matisyahu quote was in the context of a discussion of internet addiction, IIRC, which can be a big problem even when the content itself is not objectionable.

My point is that this is a very loaded and nuanced topic that requires intelligent and honest discussion, not irrational rants. The dangers of the internet are well publicized, even in the non-Jewish world. Certainly we who are required to be a "g-oy kadosh" need to take it very seriously. Every person should have an honest discussion with themselves and whomever their spiritual mentors are to find the appropriate path. And it concerns me that someone who may have been moved to think about this more seriously is going to read a post like the one above saying "it's giluy arayos, ya know. . ." and say "oh, these people promoting internet awareness are a bunch of nutso extremist who think viewing a pop-up ad is the same thing as being together with a married woman (something that we are commanded yeharag v'al yaavor"), so obviously there is nothing to think about here. . ."

amother

Wed, Oct 29 2014, 7:42 am

amother wrote:

Thanks for the hug, but I dont need one, at all. I dont feel sorry for myself at all.
One thing to get straight, I realize I did not say. When I caught my husband? It was on teh computer at home, not his phone. What does he do on his phone? Lets see, work related things, scrabble and boggle, golf. Games, nothing else.
And my husband goes to work every day where there are about 6 - 10 very nice looking young women in his department. Am I worried? Not at all. I trust my husband more than 100%. Its just that simple to me.
I feel bad for people who are terrified every time their husband may see a pop up or see a pretty woman on the street in any amount of undress. I really do. Because most of the time it is not about being disloyal or not being able to trust your husband. Its just a man looking because thats the way hashem made some men, lookers.
And I think that most women, again, not all, but most women who live in the modern world are much more carefree about this than the sheltered world you are coming from.

And what about shmirat einayim. Thats between my husband and Gd. Nothing I can do or say will change that. If he wants to look at something, again, thats between him and Gd. What more is there to do? He is a big boy.

Last edited by amother on Wed, Oct 29 2014, 10:05 am; edited 1 time in total

blossoming

Wed, Oct 29 2014, 7:42 am

m in Israel wrote:

No, looking at a smart phone is not the same thing as being together with a married woman, but it is close enough.
"ואביזרייהו גילוי עריות" - as my DH put it (he just came home, and I read him your post).

m in Israel

Wed, Oct 29 2014, 7:44 am

amother wrote:

I want to point out that the gedolim are concerned with the INTERNET in general, not just iphones. The fact that you are here on imamother means you obviously have some sort of internet access, which according to most of the Chareidi gedolim is a bedieved situation. Although it is true that a portable device such as a smartphone or tablet definitely makes it easier to access inappropriate materials without being caught, the general message from the above mentioned gedolim applies to ALL internet access. It is essential to have proper filters on any internet enabled device. (I am not saying you don't -- just that your complacency about your husband should not lead you to overlook this important factor. It is the internet that poses the risks, not the particular device one is using to access it.)

blossoming

Wed, Oct 29 2014, 8:02 am

m in Israel wrote:

I don't get you, M from Israel, you are bashing to and fro about the same point as me.
Here, I'm not anon, and I can tell you the exact internet block I have on the very same computer I'm typing with - Rimon, you could look it up at: www.rimon.net.il. As far as phones, my hubby and I both have kosher ones. It is a fancy Samsung touch with many features, except texting, email, and internet of course..

m in Israel

Wed, Oct 29 2014, 8:15 am

blossoming wrote:

I'm not sure what you don't get. I think my posts are usually very clear, and at the end of my last post I explained clearly what my concern is. In any case, I was primarily addressing the amother who I quoted who was thanking Hashem that her husband did not have an iphone -- as if that was the primary issue here. In any case, you yourself said something similar in an earlier post when you said:

Quote:

2. Not all husbands look at p*rn, but they very much may someday, being that it is so easy to see, as nobody knows what your viewing on a tiny screen of a phone (as opposed to browsing on a PC at home.)

which seems to be saying that internet on a PC is not a problem while the iphone is. Of course the very nature of a portable device brings with it the "yichud" component that R' Matisyahu, shlita referred to -- but it is important not to lose focus. The primary issue is internet access in any form. (Again, I am not addressing your personal hanhagos -- I am trying to address this topic as a concept, not as a personal discussion of which filter you use. I certainly never asked you what you personally do -- I actually specifically mentioned in my post that I assume amother DOES have a filter on her PC, but I was raising the issue as I think it is the primary one that should be discussed. And I never said gedolim said internet access in any form was "assur" -- I specifically used the term "bedieved", although maybe I should have said "not ideal".)

And as I have said from the beginning, I DO think unfiltered internet in any form is a serious risk to bring into your life, but I believe this issue can be discussed rationally. I am not disagreeing with most of your posts, or even most of "amothers" posts -- just parts of them. And I certainly am not intending to bash anyone (not sure what "bashing to and fro" even means), and I apologize if you thought this was personal.

chani8

Wed, Oct 29 2014, 9:34 am

amother wrote:

Regarding the bolded, if you meant me, then you're not getting the part where I think it's not normal for a woman to be so freaked out by her DH seeing pop ups.

The latest halachot of shmirat anayaim are modern and extreme. What does the gemorah say about it?