Are there rabannim who hold it's assur to have a smartphone?

amother

Wed, Oct 29 2014, 11:59 am

To bring a parallel.

DS (middle school) told me that a kid in his class made a stink about a "bad word" that he found in a book at school. (He told me what it was - nothing earth shattering. These books are all read and approved by the faculty before making them available to the students.)
The teacher told him that he was right. "Most boys know how to read over it, but since you cannot, lets find you a book that is more appropriate for you. She promptly handed him a book such as The Cat In The Hat.

Really bad things do not fall into anyones lap. Those who cannot tolerate normal everyday stuff that they encounter in the streets just as much, will not be protected by a filter either. Because filters aren't perfect, either.

causemommysaid

Wed, Oct 29 2014, 12:45 pm

Hashem_Yaazor wrote:

I have a question....why is anyone opposed to filters? This comes up over and over again in threads. "I can just close a pop up" "I trust myself and my husband" "If someone chooses to look at inappropriate stuff, that's their problem" etc etc All the excuses in the world, but that is justification, not a solid reason why one should not have a filter. I have yet to see a good reason not to. If you need to look at things that are commonly filtered, you can choose a filter that lets you customize and whitelist. If you feel it's sexist to only have men be filtered, you can both be filtered with each of you having half the password. I see no good reason not to have a filter. I've heard of people complaining filters that slow down their computers. Well, there are other ones out there. There is really no reason people should be on principle NOT to filter!

we used to have a filter. my browser would crash constantly and the web would load very slowly and I couldn't even get to the most basic websites.

it was annoying and cumbersome.

We have passwords on our phones and laptops so the kids can't access them without an adult around. when they are on the internet, they have to stay in the main part of the house so I can keep an eye on them and what they are doing.

as for my husband, he wants me to have all his passwords to his email and social media. I don't monitor him but I have the passwords if I would want to to hypothetically.

it works. if he were doing something illicit there would be other signs besides his internet history and he never gave me a reason not to trust him.

Hashem_Yaazor

Wed, Oct 29 2014, 12:58 pm

For all those who never had croissants falling onto their lap, I refer you to my experience. One typo, and bam, a [filth] site-- this is not uncommon, and it's definitely not like I tried accessing anything inappropriate to begin with!

There also may be a difference in sensitivities between those who consider "no croissants" falling onto their computer screen and those who really want to make sure they don't see women in bathing suits, even if it's not [filth]. It seems to me the people who never had a bad experience are totally ok with celebrity and other entertainment websites. Someone who labels himself as a ben torah would not be ok with those sites, and these are frequently advertised on the sidebar of regular websites (news sites for example).

I find it interesting how many people had computer crashes after installing a filter. I don't use Windows, but it's known to crash often, so I opt out of it, but my husband uses it just fine with K9. Norton Online Family also works well on Windows-based and Android-based systems. There are also DNS based options like OpenDNS. In terms of medical needs, while I understand it, I don't see anything wrong with still filtering and whitelisting the sites you need. It takes maybe 5 minutes and you don't have to keep overriding it.

causemommysaid

Wed, Oct 29 2014, 1:02 pm

Hashem_Yaazor wrote:

I was using K-9. it is the most frustrating experience. really slow and always crashing.

marina

Wed, Oct 29 2014, 1:35 pm

the problem is not filters or pop ups or protecting programs. Many people, especially those with kids, set that up, even in the secular world.

The problem is that these decisions are for parents and spouses to make. Not rabbis. Unless you ask a shaila, they should say nothing. Kind of like rabbis do not go around proclaiming what you should or should not do in bed. There are no speeches about edible underwear, personal massagers,lingerie or [inappropriate] board games. That is left for your own private decision making and that's how the internet filters should be.

If adults are trusted to make decisions about their intimate lives, or kashrus or anything else, I don't see why they can't be trusted to make decisions about their smart phones.

mille

Wed, Oct 29 2014, 1:43 pm

Hashem_Yaazor wrote:

Frankly, because it's a waste of my time and money. If I have to constantly white list sites and heavily customize it just to see what I need to or want to see on the internet, what is the point? I'm wasting time by doing so, and wasting my money by having the darn thing. I have self control, and I trust myself. That's what it comes down to.

I also shop at non-kosher supermarkets and somehow manage to NOT buy the non-kosher candy to eat on the ride home, even though it's tempting me right in front of my face, and no one would know. No one is checking up on me, yet I manage to buy the right things.

And needless to say, I just don't think it's the worst gravest sin in the whole world OMG to see a pop up of boobs. Guess what? I have boobs. Two of them, in fact. My husband has no boobs, but sees two boobs (mine) on a frequent basis. I trust he knows what they are. I don't think it's worth freaking out if nudies on the internet pop up, or we make a typo and end up somewhere we don't want to. I mean, feel free to call my husband "not a ben Torah" or whatever, but we are pretty happy with where we are and how we practice Judaism. I highly doubt any sizable portion of our entire community even uses a filter, other than the very right wing folks who happen to go to our very MO shul, or those who may have an additional problem (like addiction).

(And also needless to say, I would react quite similarly to amother if I "caught" my husband looking at [filth], but honestly, I told him that I don't care or want to know what he does, IF he does/looks at anything, so keep it to himself.)

I don't expect to change anyone's mind or even for people to agree with my stance, but I don't think it's so crazy for modern orthodox people to not see the point in a filter.

imasoftov

Wed, Oct 29 2014, 1:52 pm

amother wrote:

ok, can someone still translate? I have no idea what it means.

אביזרייהו דגילוי עריות (sometimes אביזרייהו דעריות) is an expression meaning "things that pertain to s3xual immorality". Translating גילוי עריות as "s3xual immorality" isn't precise either - it only means s3xual acts forbidden by the Torah and punished by death/kareit, things like adultery, incest, and so on. The expression is applied to prohibited things which while not themselves acts of גילוי עריות may lead to גילוי עריות or other s3xual offenses.

In modern Hebrew, אביזר means an accessory.

Hashem_Yaazor

Wed, Oct 29 2014, 1:59 pm

Many filters are free. I didn't find it took much time to install any that I have done. And despite men being able to see the female body in a marital context, there is an issur for them to see erva in any other context, whether you care or not. I'm not talking about blocking out faces of girls in magazines, but I highly doubt bikini clad models are in the same category when we're talking about "lo sasuru".

In terms of setting up Norton Online Family for Androids, I believe it's an app -- you sign up online at nortononlinefamily.com and just follow the instructions to add your Android to the account. You may also want to use the app smartapplock on the google play store and that app to help secure it.

dimyona

Wed, Oct 29 2014, 2:28 pm

mille wrote:

Same. I don't filter google maps to avoid strip clubs and tempting non kosher eatieries. I somehow usually get from point A to point B untarnished.

black sheep

Wed, Oct 29 2014, 2:36 pm

marina wrote:

exactly this. I don't think the issue is whether a filter is a good thing or a bad thing. it think it boils down to personal choice, and trusting adults to make decisions for themselves. I find it especially disturbing when people agree with rabbi's who tell them they cannot trust themselves.

amother

Wed, Oct 29 2014, 2:36 pm

proudmother1 wrote:

A lot of the resentment is aimed not so much at the filter itself, but the requirement to prove.

You hear about Rabbanim that require all men (not children - grown men) to turn in their phones for inspection. You hear about schools making you sign an internet contract. Etc.

Yiddishkeit is based on trust. I have never seen anyone at the supermarket check bags for non-kosher items at the exit. I have never heard of mikvaos handing out validation slips.

but this nisayon is so different and much easier to slip through than keeping kosher! Someone said before the rabanim are all saying there was never such a temptaion in the world, EVER!!! Think about it!