TANTRUMING...all.the.time.

amother

Sun, Nov 09 2014, 1:49 am

I am going nuts from it. 5.5yr old dd kvetches and complains and cries about everything. A typical morning could be that she wanted a certain bowl for cereal, even though she usually likes a different one, so she'll start crying as soon as she sees it. Then she'll cry and kvetch that she is hungry and as soon as she starts eating she is full and starts complaining that her tummy is full. Then she goes to get dressed and has a fit because she wanted to pick out her own clothes (which we have a rule that if she wants, she needs to do that the night before). By now, it's full blown screaming and crying hysterically and talking extremely rudely. I usually offer her once at that point that if she wants my help, I am happy to help her as long as she can speak appropriately without screaming and let me know what she needs. Usually it doesn't help and I just let her cry it out. By the time she has calmed down enough to come to me for help, I am busy with other things, kids lunches, fixing someone's hair, etc. When I tell her I will be with her as soon as I finish X, she starts whining again and beginning stages of crying. By then, my patience is wearing thin and my head is pounding from all the dramatic screaming. Yet I still keep my cool. Then she wants to go with dh to drop off the baby at the babysitter, which is ok, as long as she is ready on time to do that, but if she's not, dh has to go without her and then come back for her and the others. So of course, this sets off a whole nother round of crying. I explain to her that it took extra time this morning for her to get ready because she was upset earlier and that now there is just not enough time. Not having it. Eventually all is ok and everyone leaves. This is 1000x worse when she is overtired. And this scenario repeats itself if we ever have to leave in the afternoon to go anywhere or if it is close to bedtime.

Now I KNOW that something needs to change, but I don't know what. We are pretty structured with the mornings but not entirely rigid. There is room for flexibility, time for the kids to play, and ample time for each allotted thing to do. When she gets like this, my stress level starts shooting up and I know that I do not respond well. Most of the time I do not raise my voice, but you can definitely hear the tension in my voice, the underlying tone of impatience, and sometimes I am sorry to say, the sarcasm and not-so-nice comments/responses. Nothing abusive, but just not nice and it definitely feeds into the negative cycle. As much as I try to keep a smile and let things slide with this particular child, by a certain point, I jsut can't anymore and the negative feelings and actions start taking over. Dh is not around in the mornings except for the last 10 minutes or so and that will not change anytime soon.

PLEASE advise - I need to know how to make things go more smoothly for her and how to keep myself level headed and be the "big" one here.

Bruria

Sun, Nov 09 2014, 2:05 am

First of all, even though she is tantruming, remind yourself that your dd is still only 5 and she is probably doing this to get your attention. So, maybe if you schedule a time to play with her every day, it could help a lot wear off whatever she is feeling. Also, ask her teacher if something is going on in school, and ask your daughter too.
Another thing that could really help: reward her when she does something good. Do not say you are going to reward her or not depending on her behavior, because then she will get upset when she doesn't get it. So, for example, she puts her toys away or does something on time, give her a sticker on her hand, so she can look at it and remember she is a good girl.Praise her for little things, ask her to help you out and keep you company, she will feel important and will start behaving according to it.

miami85

Sun, Nov 09 2014, 2:10 am

amother

Sun, Nov 09 2014, 2:14 am

She has always been this high strung...nothing new. We do have a daily chores chart with incentives. I do not feel that most of time her complaining and tantruming is for attention. It honestly seems to me like she is having a hard time transitioning or just dealing with herself, her feelings, what needs to get done. With eating, it happens sometimes in the morning that she gets full right away, but I am not too worried - I am like that, starving until I actually eat and then get full quickly. She eats fine during the rest of the day. I have spoken to her morah and she is doing beautifully in school.

I know that she is just five which is why I don't take t personally when she gets this way, but the noise level and constant crying really gets to me after a while. And it's not like it's just her at home. B"H, I have 3 other little ones who all need my attention during this time as well, so it's just hard to be dividing yourself up like that and having this background noise that just won't go away and no matter what you do, nothing helps...

amother

Sun, Nov 09 2014, 2:20 am

miami85 wrote:

Even though I see you are trying to preempt these tantrums, there are a couple of things I thought of:

1)Do you remind her to pick out her clothes the night before? Does it take so long for her to choose her clothes in the morning that it's worth the fight? I know I personally might pick out something the night before, but then my mood changes. If it's a quick switch it might not be worth the battle. I have no problem with her switching what she wants, but she often wants something that is in the lundry or somethign I need to go fishing for in the clean unfolded laundry. If I suggest that she does it, it's another thing to cry about. I do try to remind her at night, but I am not great about it.
2)Can you leave a selection of bowls and say which one do you want? She may be indicating that she wants more control in her life and this is how she's communicating it--don't choose my bowl for me even if YOU think you know what I want. Between my kids, there are 2 bowls that they always fight over so we rotate. I can't always give her the one she wants because it's not fair to the others.
3)If she complains that she's hungry, and then that she's full--is it possible that her stomach is bothering her? Does she need to go to the bathroom? Is she actually hungry? Or is she not a morning person? Even though breakfast is important, some kids aren't ready for breakfast first thing in the morning. If she's not ready by the time she needs to leave can she take some cereal in a bag to eat on the way? She complains about being hungry from the second she wakes up. If she doesn't have time to eat or doesn't seem up to it, I offer her food in a bag to take along, but she seems to enjoy eating breakfast.
4)It sounds like she needs extra time for transitions and possibly may need an earlier bedtime if she is melting down so easily. Maybe a visual chart of all the things she needs to get done in the morning so that she can have a better understanding of all the things that need to get done if she wants to help take baby to the babysitter. Maybe she could rearrange her morning routine to allow her for smoother transitions and more cause and effect--if you want to play, first get dressed or eat breakfast. We have a daily chores chart and it's very visual. I could care less which order she does her stuff in. She is often the first one to go to sleep around here...around 6:30, waking up at 6:30.
5)Finally, I would walk away when she's tantrumming. If she has emotions and feelings that she needs to work out, nothing you say will change it. Let her scream and cry it out like you do, she may feel better and then get on with the morning. I liken it to a thunderstorm, if a thunderstorm comes, you can yell and scream at the sky, but the rain won't stop, you just have to let it pass and deal with the puddles afterward. However, since you DID tell her that you will be available to help her if she stops crying, try to tune in to when she is calming down and try NOT to be busy when she comes to you to reinforce her immediately when she is ready to talk nicely. I do try to be available for her, but sometimes she comes while I am in the middle of putting a ponytail into another child's hair, or taking out a sandwhich from the microwave. It's those few seconds that I need that she flips out about.

5*Mom

Sun, Nov 09 2014, 6:43 am

amother wrote:

We do this all the time. She feels bad that she acts this way. I'm telling you, its as if she just doesn't know how to self regulate...

Self-regulation is a cognitive skill. Some children develop it naturally and some children need to be taught this skill systematically. If this is her only area of difficulty, I'd skip the behavioral pediatrician and find a SLP or play therapist who has training and experience with executive functions/social skills. I'd also recommend reading The Explosive Child by Ross Greene. You don't need to be an out-and-out explosive child to benefit from his methods. Pay particular attention to lagging skills and unsolved problems. And you can learn how to solve the predictable problems together at a calm time with his Collaborative Problem Solving techniques.

amother

Sun, Nov 09 2014, 6:51 am

I started not listening to my children when they scream/cry/throw a fit. My 4yo is easy because of his personality, but my 7yo is much harder. When he's having one of his fits and comes to tell me about it, I tell him I'll be more than happy to listen, but not like this. If he stops right away, I listen, but if not, I send him to his room until he's calm. He knows already washing his face, cool water on his face helps him calm down. Afterwards I always listen and deal with the issue and tell him that not everything goes the way we want, sometimes yes and sometimes no. It takes a long time, but his fits have been shorter.

amother

Sun, Nov 09 2014, 6:55 am

What FranticFrumie said. Once a child is in a full blown meltdown like you are describing, it is very hard for them to learn anything. You have to find out what the underlying triggers are, and then work on preventing the triggers.

It really sounds like she is 'bubbling away' at 95 percent stress level most of the time, so the smallest thing is tipping her over the edge. That base stress level may be due to her perceiving the world very differently to other people.

Please get her assessed by a paediatrician. And try visuals- that is a great idea.

AND DON'T FORGET to daven to Hashem for help. Hashem will send you the solution if you have enough trust. But you will probably have to break outside of your comfort zone and get outside help.

miami85

Sun, Nov 09 2014, 8:47 am

It does sound like you are doing a good job and you have a good handle with preempting the tantrums, but sometimes it does come from personality and the fact that she is the oldest(--or middle?) and has a hard time having a hard time sharing mommy.

I don't mean a chores chart, but a chart specifically for her where she can visualize all the things that SHE needs to do before she can walk baby to babysitter.

Children at 3-6 are testing the limits and learning the "rules of the house" and how it interacts with their autonomy. Some children fair better than others. Having a child with a high strung personality that is easily set off makes it all the more difficult. I might also try to see if there is something that might be physically irritating her.

In dealing with a challenging child, I sometimes use a sports' analogy, in sports it's almost impossible to have a "perfect" record of winning and losing, but you have to look at your percentages at look at the tantrums you prevented rather than those you solved. Children will tantrum and kvetch, we can't always stop it. They are unique individuals with unique perspectives on the world and trying to make sense of it all. As a parent you will feel better when you "play your game" and don't give in to the opposition. Sometimes the answer is "no" if the clothing is in the laundry or its your sibling's turn with the bowl--then the answer is "no" you take what's available and that's it. It's upsetting, but too bad. Let her be mad, she's entitled, when she's done being mad, you can be there for her again, but until that "storm" passes you have to "seek shelter"

Dolly Welsh

Sun, Nov 09 2014, 4:19 pm

I know nothing here and there is wise advice up there. May I just mumble that maybe you have too many kinds of clothes. An awful lot of choices, and that can overwhelm.

This rubbed me wrong somehow, forgive me:

"...wanted to pick out her own clothes (which we have a rule that if she wants, she needs to do that the night before). "

If she wants? How can somebody know the night before what they are going to want the next morning? And it's not even decided: pick tomorrow's clothes. It's: maybe you will want to pick your clothes or maybe you won't. So she has to decide THAT before she even decides which clothes. TWO decisions. Decision making is HARD. That's why executives are paid so much money. It is very burdensome to have to make decisions. gradually, you let, teach, and require that a child make decisions, but no more than are necessary. It is not necessary to decide to eat or what to wear at five. "This is what we are eating and we love it, and this is what we are wearing. If you hate something, fine, we will get you something else, but in general these decisions are made for you." To me, that's an easier world to live in, especially when only five.

Sometimes too many decisions are overwhelming.

And what is this about different bowls? A bowl is a bowl. Maybe there are too many kinds of things here.

One shirt, one skirt, one bowl. Not this shirt, that skirt, that particular bowl.

Maybe some need for simpleness is here?

She has been TAUGHT that there is such a thing as a certain kind of bowl. She didn't know that before she was taught it. And that these different kinds of bowls somehow confer different breakfast experiences. She didn't think that up for herself.

It's coming from somewhere.

But I apologize for wandering in where I know nothing. Excuse me. Just mumbling.

Good luck. You sound like a wonderful, concerned mother.

I agree that tantrums are not only unpleasant obviously, they teach the child an isolation that isn't the greatest thing to learn, especially not frequently. The occasional tantrum is part of life, fine. But you are saying it's too often. Good luck again.

Last edited by Dolly Welsh on Sun, Nov 09 2014, 4:38 pm; edited 1 time in total