Ferguson murder began by victim walking in gutter? Wo!

causemommysaid

Sun, Nov 30 2014, 1:12 am

marina wrote:

You can be ashamed of them living here in the US. Every single time, these people riot in Yerushalayim and burn trashcans and stop traffic, you should be humiliated and ashamed wherever you live, whether in America or Japan. After all - these are YOUR people, aren't they? Be ashamed.

Or.... you could say, that no, just because I'm an orthodox Jew doesn't mean I support crazy riots and maybe, just maybe, the fact that a person happens to have dark skin and happens to live in Missouri doesn't mean he or she supports crazy rioting and looting.

No, I am not Israeli. I am not chareidi. I have no association with a bunch of nutters who live on the other side of the world. now if they lived in my hometown that would be another story.

Notice that I said the people in Ferguson. I did not say every black person in the world.

besides if we are really looking for someone to blame.....blame the media. They incited the nation with their propaganda and agenda. They found a story that was a money maker and they exploited it. that doesn't exonerate the rioters but the media played a significant role here.

marina

Sun, Nov 30 2014, 1:29 am

causemommysaid wrote:

Oh, I see. You just want the black people in Ferguson to be ashamed of the other black people in Ferguson who are looting and rioting. Ok.

Anyway, I live in Cleveland. There are some crazy violent white people here in Cleveland, let me tell you. Would you like me to be ashamed of them? I mean - we have the same color skin and we live in the same town!

marina

Sun, Nov 30 2014, 1:31 am

naomi6 wrote:

Can't understand how they get away with all the riots - so much destruction looting burning cars how come the police and National guard can't stop them arrest them etc

Oy, all those riots.

Were you upset about these, Naomi?

http://www.alternet.org/11-stu.....ioted

http://aattp.org/white-people-.....ages/

Heyaaa

Sun, Nov 30 2014, 4:25 am

marina wrote:

How often do you feel ashamed to be an Orthodox Jew? In what universe is this the correct response?

To answer your question, I felt ashamed last year when they had those gatherings. I felt ashamed because an outsider might think I look Chareidi and therefore think I agree with anything that went on.

However, I think the ones who did the looting and still burn garbage cans did/do it for the same reasons that the Furgesonians are rioting now. These people are growing up with sh!t lives with sucky family situations and can't even afford to go to I.e. Blue Man's Group for entertainment. Instead they have to create their own outlets with the limited resources they've been given. None of the adults in their lives have actually put in proper care for their emotional well-being, they've learned to reject all authority and furthermore their lives have probably been chaotic and unpredictable so their just projecting what they've been fed.

Last edited by Heyaaa on Sun, Nov 30 2014, 9:09 am; edited 1 time in total

DrMom

Sun, Nov 30 2014, 4:34 am

Heyaaa wrote:

However, I think the ones who did the looting and still burn garbage cans did/do it for the same reasons that the Furgesonians are rioting now. These people are growing up with sh!t lives with sucky family situations and can't even afford to go to a Blue Man's Group for entertainment. Instead they have to create their own outlets with the limited resources they've been given. None of the adults in their lives have actually put in proper care for their emotional well-being, they've learned to reject all authority and furthermore their lives have probably been chaotic and unpredictable so their just projecting what they've been fed.

Huh? What an odd thing to say.

DrMom

Sun, Nov 30 2014, 4:42 am

naomi6 wrote:

Can't understand how they get away with all the riots - so much destruction looting burning cars how come the police and National guard can't stop them arrest them etc

As I understand it, the mayor of Ferguson called for the National Guard, but the National Guard was not provided until 3 days later.

mommy3b2c

Sun, Nov 30 2014, 8:26 am

DrMom wrote:

Marina, I am not sure what you are trying to say. The anti-enlistment riots certainly did reflect badly on haredim.

And -- fairly or not -- poor behavior by Jews of any type certainly does reflect poorly on all Jews. That's the whole concept of chilul HaShem.

Was trying to put these thoughts to words myself. Very well said. I get very mad when Jews behave in appropriately. They make all Jews look bad when in reality I couldn't be more far removed from crazy , violent people who protest.

southernbubby

Sun, Nov 30 2014, 9:19 am

I do agree with Marina although the last time I said anything like what she said, the thread got locked. We have unfortunately bred a culture where it is expected that everyone will do "shtick" and the reason that it is such a mitzvah is that any government that supports Torah learning is actually helping itself. All those taxpayers who reluctantly hand over their money to us are gaining a schuss without even realizing it. After all, why should the Jew walk into the WIC office with their kid dressed in Family Dollar clothes and riding in a Family Dollar umbrella stroller like the non jews? Just because we are "poor" enough to come to the government for money does not mean that we have to look poor. After all, we are doing a favor to our fellow taxpayers and helping the economy out at the same time.
And when a Jew makes the news, whether it for being a slumlord, beating up a gay person, molesting kids, committing fraud, creating a scene on a plane, being on the school board of failing schools that we don't send or own kid to, or rioting, it should be noted that at least we give tzedukah.
Too bad that the major news doesn't see all the good we do, at least for our own people.

I agree with Marina. We are our own worst enemies. Our leaders don't address crime adequately and in some cases will never address it because unfortunately crime helps fund our causes. We basically have to pray that no Jew gets caught.

greenfire

Sun, Nov 30 2014, 9:35 am

http://www.cbsnews.com/videos/.....oting

http://www.cbsnews.com/news/da.....fied/

I'm not sure what gives anybody the right to bully - someone else - let alone a store owner & get away with it just because they're over 6 feet & intimidating

not sure what could make a cop shoot someone to the death - unless they were afraid for their lives

are we ever to know why any community claims racial - when there is an obvious crime - on the other hand look at how a large amount of the ferguson community is behaving without any moral compass

cops are known to be trigger happy - a 12 year old boy was shot right here in cleveland the other day - by a cop in his patrol car -

how would we feel in a similar disposition?

southernbubby

Sun, Nov 30 2014, 9:47 am

naomi6 wrote:

soooo sad that you see only this part of your people. Pages and pages wouldn't be enough to write how much Torah and Chesed etc. is our daily life. Of course there are some people out there causing a Chilul Hashem but why do we have to emphasize those.

Wouldn't it be nice if the pages and pages of Torah and Chessed were what was reported in the news? Occasionally it is but is that overshadowed by the negative news reports?

Let me tell you where I am coming from. I am a BT for nearly 4 decades but before I became frum, my perception of Jews from growing up non-frum Jewish was that they were responsible, sober , solid citizens that prided themselves on being team players in America. Non-Jews told their daughters that if they wanted a husband who would support them, not abuse them, and stay sober, then they should find a Jewish man. Yeshivas never had drug issues. When it was found that the Catholic priests were molesting kids, we told ourselves that no Jew could ever do such a thing. Jews were always well educated and reliable and only non-Jews were on welfare or government benefits. We Jews were the supporters of society, the giver, not the takers.

Yes I do see the good in the frum world because I give to that world as well. I also volunteer and give tzedukah and help others in the community. We also get every appeal in the mail for every cause so it is impossible not to be aware of the good. The question is, does the outside world perceive us that way, or the way that the news portrays us? When we judge the African American community, is Ferguson in our minds or do we remember that we have had a black president for 2 terms? Do we think of Micheal Brown or Ben Carson?

shoshanim999

Sun, Nov 30 2014, 10:53 am

First of all, Its shameful and beyond unacceptable that jews behave that way. I do want to point out a few differences:

1. The orthodox that were standing in the street, blocking traffic and lighting garbage cans on fire, were NOT looting stores. We do not see them smashing storefronts and running out with stolen goods. It certainly doesn't justify their behavior but its not as bad.

2. The orthodox jews were protesting an issue-the army draft- that is of legitimate concern and has a direct impact on their families. The blacks protesting in Ferguson couldn't care less about Michael Brown or their fellow black citizens. 93% of black that r murdered in this country r killed by blacks. Any rally's or protests? how about the fact that over 70% of black babies r born to teenage unwed mothers. Anybody screaming about that? A black man is shot by a police officer (possibly within the law) and there r riots and looting and this tremendous show of support for their fellow citizens. I'll end with this: Since August 9, the day Michael Brown was killed, approximately 2000 blacks have been murdered by other blacks. Do u think any of those protesters can name even one? I don't.

PinkFridge

Sun, Nov 30 2014, 10:54 am

Southernbubby and Naomi, I think you both have good points.
By and large, when I think of African Americans, I think of the many fine people I see in my community. Kids who hold the door open for me at the library, families I see in the grocery store where the parents are kind and gentle to their fairly well-behaved kids, even if going shopping at the end of a long day. And I know that not too many miles away from me are seriously depressed and dangerous areas, where kids aren't going to high school and the cards are stacked against breaking out of some horrible cycles and I don't judge these people, I have compassion. (BTW, is it PC to hold up Ben Carson or Thomas Sowell, etc. as role models? Wink

)

However, when we have a tragedy, we respond with the kol Yaakov. Or take this story: someone buys tefillin, he hadn't laid them since bar mitzvah, but decided to start doing it again because these kedoshim will no longer be able to. As I said elsewhere, our response is to fill the void. Where are the voices to start doing that? To graduate high school and make something of yourself now that Michael Brown no longer has that opportunity? What in heaven's name is the point of torching not just businesses but businesses in your own community, owned by the same people who are perceived to have been so wronged? Scratching Head

I think I can still legitimately ask that question even while some bad actors among my own folk are making a chillul Hashem.

And it's sad that they are. It just means that the rest of us have to double up on living in a way that makes the shem Shamayim misaheiv. Even if people have their blinders on and don't see it, we will be creating positive energy in the world. Anyone up to joining me?

mommy3b2c

Sun, Nov 30 2014, 11:08 am

southernbubby wrote:

What does your post have to do with a boy being shot because he assaulted a police officer?