do people see any value in sahm anymore

melalyse

Sat, Dec 13 2014, 8:58 pm

I work 3 days a week and I'm home 2 days a week. This is the first yr that I have all my children in school and I have to tell you that I am crazy busy from the second my kids leave until the second they came home, I don't know how I managed when I had a toddler at home. Firstly, I drop my son off at 8:50 and don't want into my door until at least 9:10 and I leave the latest to pick him up @ 3:00. Between laundry for a family of 5, cooking and trying to declutter a small living space, many days I don't have a second to do regular cleaning. I am Bsha Tova expecting and I thought that I would be able to have time to relax a little, but I am so busy. I do appreciate that I have the time to do these things because honestly I don't know when I would do laundry otherwise (laundry in basement, babysitter used to do it when I was at work). Maybe if I had 5 days off I would have some lazy time to myself.

nyer1

Sat, Dec 13 2014, 9:50 pm

amother wrote:

(OP)

I hear the frustration on your part (middle class in USA is seriously struggling and mistreated). Add to that, expenses of the frum lifestyle... It's so hard.

But- do you also feel that frustration about kollel families? Just as Tatty learning in kollel is a strong value for some, being a stay at home mother is a strong value for some. It's a hard thing to judge others simply because the financial situation today is so difficult. Also, good daycare is not cheap. It's a complicated world.

I hate to say it, but I do kind of feel resentment when people choose a lifestyle that puts them in a situation where they have to accept gov't aid when they could otherwise be working. yes, we need torah learning in the world, but to have it by the masses, by ppl who can't afford it? especially when not all of them are actually serious learners who SHOULD be in kollel? yeah, it bothers me, and surprisingly, it's a big chilul hashem, many times. when my non religious family talks about it, about how there are frum ppl out there just living off the govt, it's really hard to defend my fellow jews in this instance. again, I respect torah learning but resent ppl who stay in the lifestyle longer than many times they should and keep collecting. same with SOME of the SAHMs out there. again, I hate to generalize, but I do feel resentment.

TRUST me, if we could afford that my husband could learn all day, or that I could stay home with my children, then I would! both the ideal, I guess. but we CANT AFFORD IT, so we DON't DO IT

nyer1

Sat, Dec 13 2014, 9:56 pm

amother wrote:

Anonymous because I know I will be attacked for saying this.
The bottom line is that we all make choices in life. And hopefully we choose what is best for our families. Your family perhaps benefits best by you working. If your neighbor chooses to stay home because that is what her children need, please realize that her first obligation is to her children and not to her jealous neighbor.

so then why don't we all just stay home AND have our husbands in kollel? we can all collect off the govt AND get tuition assistance. one big party.

Ema of 5

Sat, Dec 13 2014, 10:06 pm

nyer1 wrote:

then how about if a person has such a job that they can't afford childcare maybe they should go for higher education ?? I'm sorry I just really cannot even fathom it.

Are you offering to pay for it? I would love to go back to school but I don't qualify for financial assistance but I also can't afford it on too of all of the other expenses we have.
Yes, the money for the child(ren) of a stay at home mom has to come from somewhere, but who said two working parents automatically means paying full tuition? Someone asked this already, but do you feel the same way about men learning in kollel? It's a choice, like everything else in life.

amother

Sat, Dec 13 2014, 10:18 pm

nyer1 wrote:

so then why don't we all just stay home AND have our husbands in kollel? we can all collect off the govt AND get tuition assistance. one big party.

Here we go again with the govt aid bashing.
You seem to think that govt aid in itself is enough for a family with kids.
You obviously dont know much about it.

My dh works and I'm a Sam mom with 4 kids.
We barely make ends meet with food stamps and healthcare benefits, with our rent approx 80% of his income.
And yes I looked into plenty of jobs to help with the income.
But believe me, at the end of the day, after paying a babysitter, what I would bring home is just no worth the stress of juggling work and 4 kids under the age of 5.

nyer1

Sat, Dec 13 2014, 10:26 pm

maybe I'm just speaking from personal experience, thats all. I know at LEAST 5 families where the mother stays home and has no reason not to work and they get tuition assistance, medicaid and foodstamps. it really bothers me, I feel resentful. again, if living a jewish life weren't so expensive, I would love to stay home and raise my children, but I just can't. before becoming religious BT I would have loved to stay home. but it just isn't possible.

I'm sorry if I offended anyone. I really am. but I'm really grappling with this right now. I'm not happy at my job and just wish I could be home, and I can't. it's awful.

Emotional

Sat, Dec 13 2014, 10:33 pm

nyer1 wrote:

Firstly do you know for sure that they have no reason not to work?
Secondly I feel for you. It's a horrible feeling to hate your job. I've been there. But the answer to that isn't to be angry at those who stay home - it's to try to find a new job or to see what you can do make your job a bit less stressful. Maybe you can negotiate a bit of flexibility with your hours? Or arrange to be transferred within the company? I don't know what you do or what field you're in.

amother

Sat, Dec 13 2014, 10:46 pm

nyer1 wrote:

(OP)

Hugs. Been there myself. I didn't hate my job, just hated that it was so full-time and I felt very overwhelmed by my life at the time (very colicky baby plus the long hours at work plus having to get back and forth from the babysitter- I sent my baby to a small group that was not close by... )

I was not a professional (I had my first child around my 21st birthday and had not completed school yet) so it's no surprise I struggled to make ends meet. (my husband was still new in his field)

But my sisters, who are working professionals, with professional husbands, also find finances to be tight. It seems like there's no easy answer to the financial constraints of 2014....

Ruchel

Sun, Dec 14 2014, 7:20 am

amother wrote:

So who cares if you're not a washed out shmatta, that is not the only way to fulfillment. Why are women so good at judging each other negatively and looking down on others for "achieving" less concretely, but not appreciating the more self fulfilling and personal development/ enjoyable side of life.

That's the answer.

Maybe the jealous ladies (on both sides!) should try it and then speak. If you have decided you will NOT accept grants etc and will work, then don't punish others for doing a different choice that may be in its way just as hard.

chaiz

Sun, Dec 14 2014, 7:44 am

nyer1 wrote:

have you ever heard of low interest student loans? are you serious?

Low interest student loans are not always so easy to get. Furthermore, even with low-interest it still adds up. Interest and debt is not something to be taken lightly. People are not stupid or lazy or immoral for being very wary.

Barbara

Sun, Dec 14 2014, 8:52 am

eema of 3 wrote:

People resent others making choices that adversely impact them directly.

Which is why I always say that income should be attributed to SAHMs / kollel dads, and others who choose not to work before financial aid decisions are made. Obviously, people could appeal based on special circumstances. You virtually eliminate resentment of tuition assistance. You place the real cost of certain lifestyle decisions on the families who make those decisions, not on others. And as a bonus, you will be able to help more families who have been struggling for years, with two working parents, but who were unable to receive aid.

amother

Sun, Dec 14 2014, 9:37 am

I have relative of a large family. She was a sahm for years. Finances were tight but they managed. Then things got really difficult after the economy fell so she went out to work, leaving the house just before her kids in the morning and coming home moments before them.

She was unavailable to her family and friends. She came home exhausted but had to make supper and do HW with her kids. She had no koach left. She slept all Shabbos. Her family really missed her. Her gourmet dinners, open home and guests for Shabbos meals were a thing of the past. After a year, she stopped working and went back to being a SAHM. It drained her too much and it was affecting her family.

Now that all are in school full time and the older kids married she uses her time to do chessed quietly. The outsider may not know it. She helps care for an elderly parent, And she is there for her DH, children and grandchildren. Her home is open once again.

PAMOM

Sun, Dec 14 2014, 10:26 am

This is turning out to be a more complicated question than I had thought initially. To answer just the question: of course there's value. In addition, speaking as a feminist, I thought the point of the women's movement was to give women choices--and being SAH is a legitimate choice. The questions, as many if you are pointing out, are economic. Should we be subsidizing able- bodied women with healthy children and who choose to stay home? I hear cries of "welfare mother, " welfare queen" if the mothers are of other ethnicities and "socialism" if someone suggests replacing "welfare" with "parental subsidies." Then there are those who accuse mothers of neglecting their families when they go back to work after childbirth. And these points only address the women who need to work for financial reasons. As I said, it's way more complicated than I thought.

Barbara

Mon, Dec 15 2014, 9:34 am

octopus wrote:

no. people do not value sahms. that explains some of the responses on this thread. yes, ppl, there is an inherent value for a mother to be home with her young children. It should not be viewed as a luxury even though, unfortunately, today it is.

I live in the United States. While Democrats, including President Obama, lament the fact that we lack a maternity leave policy, they have not taken any action on it. And the Republicans are working to block mandatory sick leave policies, let alone maternity leave.

So you are right, as a nation, the US does not value women taking time off after the birth of a child.

Me, I support maternity leave policies that obligate companies to hold jobs for workers for up to a year, and value stay at home mothers.

I just don't believe that it should be on my dime.

amother

Mon, Dec 15 2014, 9:40 am

medola wrote:

Interesting article on the subject...
http://www.nytimes.com/2014/12.....;_r=1

(OP)

Great article.

The workforce is not mom-friendly. Giving one year off post-birth in Europe seems very generous- in the US even a 4-month leave would make things much more mom-friendly. It's just like- 6 weeks is the standard. Six weeks???

And so it goes.

allrgymama

Mon, Dec 15 2014, 10:46 am

Skimmed page 1 and am answering the question:

There is nothing that I wanted more in my whole life than to have children and be home with home. However, except for an approximate 9 month period (starting right before my daughter was diagnosed with severe food allergies which precluded her going to daycare at such a young age), I have worked ever since I got married 6 1/2 years ago

I gave my three months notice in November, though and am counting down the days until I will be DONE.

This is an exceptionally busy time at work (which is why I needed to give three months) and my husband could not be happier that I am stopping. Just yesterday he commented (in a sort of backhanded compliment way) on what an excellent mother I am; that he sees how everything falls apart when I have to give so much of my time and energy to work (and I work from home) and he cannot wait for things to go 'back to normal'.

Baruch Hashem that, after years of struggling, we can afford for me to quit.

How will I fill my time? My 6 month old will stop going to daycare full time. I will start going to the gym again and concentrate on my own health and care -- something that I have neglected too long. I will register for Tour de Simcha. I will start making normal nightly suppers for my family. I will volunteer for Chai Lifeline. I will take better care of my home. I will stay home for Pesach for the first time. I will look for a home to purchase and get my family moved.

Am I nervous that I will be bored at some point? Yes.

But I also most definitely believe that I deserve this break and that I have worked hard for it. So I do not fault other women (what someone else earlier deemed a SAHW) who are home for whatever their reasons might be.

nyer1

Mon, Dec 15 2014, 11:23 am

Ruchel wrote:

I don't punish anyone for their choices. I just resent the fact that my taxes have to pay for it. assuming it's an able bodied individual