do people see any value in sahm anymore

amother

Thu, Dec 11 2014, 11:06 am

after a few crazy years with endless therapy and running around walking 3 hours everyday to get my son to school etc. I was able to be a mensch when everyone was out of the house. all of the household running falls on me. appointments, iep meetings evaluations drs appointments. if a kid is sick I am home. dh is not able to cover for me. he is out of the house the whole day, and nights.

I do not have cleaning help. I do all of my shopping and errands when they are in school. I also put the house back together, I read and keep on learning things that I am interested in. I do have a life. I go to shuirim etc. I am not the type of person to be smothering to my kids. when life settles down I am definitely going to work on getting a degree, or going to work.

morah

Thu, Dec 11 2014, 11:10 am

I'm one of those who is totally not cut out to be a SAHM, but I have tremendous respect for those who do. First of all, even when all your kids are in school, there's plenty to do. Older kids have needs too, sometimes more time consuming than those of little kids (though not as physically exhausting). Also, even if the level of work stays the same and you can now do it at a more relaxed pace since the kids are at school, you're still doing plenty, and mazal tov on no longer having to tear out your hair to get it done! Since when is there a rule that productivity requires being frazzled all the time? I also think it's a shame that the workplace is so rigid. I do think if you want to be a SAHM, it is wise to think 10 or 20 years down the line, because if you think you will want or need to get back in the workforce at some point, leaving it entirely is mostly a bad idea. I wish it wasn't that way. It shouldn't be that way. But it is that way, and definitely something to keep in mind. It does unfortunately show how little society thinks of raising children.

amother

Thu, Dec 11 2014, 11:20 am

Society pays lip service to it, but doesn't actually support it. when women have to go back into the workforce they are penalized, and it's harder and harder to live on one income. yet childcare is very expensive and often not great quality for the money. outside the frum velt women are responding by just not having children. I know people paying $2500 a month for infant care (not a nanny, center based care in major cities). some would like a second or third but cannot afford to pay that.

And yet so many things are set up to make it hard for 2 income couples, unless they make a ton of money and can afford to pay someone else to do the work. long hours culture, in some fields expectation that your spouse will trail or take up the bulk of household work to enable your career.

If you have a special needs child? forget it. I would like to return to work but am limited by the crazy schedule of public special ed preschool (I do not live in NY) which is half a day and has random breaks throughout the year. in order to work we'd need a nanny who can handle my SN child and can work around that schedule (because he cannot handle the large group setting of mainstream childcare/school). that is not easy to find, nor cheap. And it's still better for me to be home because I can take him to therapy and implement his home plan.

we value people now according to their economic contribution, and so we're left with empty praise for stay at home mothers, who contribute their labor but are unpaid. it's true of any unpaid caregiver.

momoftwo2

Thu, Dec 11 2014, 11:25 am

I have 2 kids and both r in school from 10 till 3. I didn't go back to teach this year and you can't imagine how my life changed for the better b"h. Yes, money is extremely tight but dh is self employed and working on expanding his business now that we have only one income. I'm by nature very uptight and everything has to b perfect. So I'm so happy to finally have housework under control and dinner ready on time.
One of my kids is very challenging and I'm able to take it in stride after relaxing during the day if he comes home in a bad mood. Yes, I have fun! I go out w friends, we go to free meuseams or attractions and just chill. But I'm a better mom and wife because of it. It's the first winter since I'm married that I didn't fall into a depression bh. I feel blessed to have the support of my dh. My in laws? Not so much! Mil thinks I'm extremely lazy. But who the heck cares when I know what I do is right.

amother

Thu, Dec 11 2014, 12:00 pm

I'm a SAHM. I have a 17 month old who is home all day, and I'm due to give birth in a few weeks. My other five children come home at various times throughout the day, the earliest being 2:30pm. Most days I'm working (from home) as a graphic designer. I try to work only when my daughter is napping, but of course that's not always possible. I don't have any cleaning help, so I have to spend a good amount of time every day just straightening up the house, doing laundry, and preparing meals. I honestly don't know how working moms do it! And I grew up with a working mom. She came home the same time as us every day! I sometimes do wish I could work outside the home, but we worked out that it would probably cost me more in day care expenses and I'd barely break even. I'm glad for my toddler that she has me with her all day, and that my children get to come home to a mother. I greatly admire working moms, but I'm not ashamed to be a SAHM either.

mummiedearest

Thu, Dec 11 2014, 12:27 pm

I've been home with kids and home without. I have been in school while being a full-time sahm. when I had more time than I needed, I ran a baby gear gemach. I currently have a 3 yr old home with me full time. I spend time with some family members who have health issues. I'm the only one who can spend time during a regular work week with them. and since I'm home, I'm able to do emergency childcare for relatives in the area. I clean my house, do laundry, bake from scratch, cook fresh food, run errands. I enjoyed the time when my second kid was in school and my youngest wasn't born yet. it was a bit more relaxing. but I still had plenty of work to do. I have two hours of cleaning help on friday so that I don't collapse at the shabbos table. I would go nuts with more cleaning help per week, and I don't get extra help, even during pesach cleaning. I pick up side projects to keep myself occupied if I feel restless. the work does not stop just because a kid is in school.

amother

Thu, Dec 11 2014, 1:20 pm

I'm a SAHM. My kids are out of the house from 8:30 - 4. I KNOW that other women look down on me from the looks on their faces when I tell them "I'm a Mommy" to their question of "What do you do?". So now sometimes I lie. I intermittently help my DH out with his business paperwork and filing so sometimes I tell them I work for my DH.

What they all don't know, even those who think they know me well and/or have known me for a long time, is that I have a heart condition. I was born with it and it recently has started to affect me more. I had two procedures in the past year or so which "helped" the problem (I don't need open heart surgery at the moment b"h) But I am very low on energy as a result of it. I get up and get my kids off to school, that exhausts me so much many days that I need to rest after that. Some times after grocery shopping I need to lay down for an hour. I have cleaning help because I'd rather not use my limited energy to scrub toilets, change linen and wash floors. I'd rather save it to hug my children, and serve them supper when they come home from school. I don't go to the gym (wish I had the strength for that) or DO lunch with my friends (all my peers work). I don't have the energy for chessed at the moment (thought in the past I did sometimes). I take care of my family and I feel lucky that I can.

Look down on me if you must, neighbor, because you are NOT my friend.

amother

Thu, Dec 11 2014, 1:37 pm

I have VERY rich relatives who live in Brooklyn and the Five Towns. They have several live-ins who do all the cleaning, cooking, laundry, and childcare. They wake up with the kids at night, take care of them all day. So I asked my relatives "What on earth are you so busy with all day??!" They reply "running a home." Now to me, poor out of towner, running a home means being busy cooking, cleaning, doing laundry. She doesn't do any of that. So she says going shopping and going to appointments and to all the kids plays and basketball games and productions. Basically running around buying everything that everyone wants. And going to the gym for an hour every day, getting nails done, going out with friends.

so it means different things to differnet people

Fox

Thu, Dec 11 2014, 2:17 pm

Of course people see "value" in having someone available at home. I believe that's why, statistically speaking, the women who are happiest with their lives are those who work part-time. They have the benefit of structure and some adult interaction while also having an extra few hours to do grocery shopping or make dinner.

When it comes to these decisions, there is no such thing as a free lunch. No matter what we do, it will have repercussions on how our children view the world.

My DH's SAHM has been the biggest source of difficulty in my marriage: until he was in his early 20s, his laundry was retrieved from the hamper and left folded on his bed at the end of the day. Dinner was served promptly at 6 p.m., and there was always milk in the house. He still can't understand why I can't do all these things -- and work full-time. He insists that I just don't have a "system" for housework, grocery shopping, etc.

My own kids, though, are thoroughly accustomed to having a WAHM. They'll probably be surprised to discover that most working moms don't have the luxury of dropping everything to bring a forgotten lunch to school. On the flip side, they have a high tolerance for mixing business and family life and unquestioningly mute themselves when a client calls during dinner.

In short, society wants the "value" of having a loving caretaker for children; the "value" of a second income; the "value" of having someone supervising the practical running of the house; and the "value" of having clean clothes and milk in the fridge. The problem is that we want all these "values" at the same time, and as a group, women have been willing to try to please everyone.

Ema of 5

Thu, Dec 11 2014, 2:38 pm

amother wrote:

(OP)

Wow! Kol Hakovod! I think raising a large family is a huge job in and of itself, for sure. Do u think u would miss getting out and working after a while if u stayed home?

And what about a small family, or a medium family....whatever that means? My youngest is in playgroup, and I can tell you my house would run MUCH more smoothly if I were at home, even without kids. I'd be more on too of the laundry, more in top of the cleaning and maintaining, my kids (and my husband and myself too) would have more nutritional food, both for meals and for snacks. I would have the luxury of running errands without having to take all my kids will me and keep them out late and therefore up past their bedtime. We would be able to have more of a real structure. I would have time to daven and work on my relationship with Hashem, which is really lacking. I would have time to go to a shiur and not have to pay for baby sitting. I would have more energy for my husband and children.
And if I chose to sit around all day and not do a thing in the house and just watch movies and tv, why would hat be anyone's business other than mine and my husbands?

shlomitsmum

Thu, Dec 11 2014, 2:48 pm

I am a SAHM because that is what we feel works best for our family .

It does not really matter to me if it is valued by other people or if it is in style . Each individual family needs to decide what works for them individually without concern of what others may think.

I personally love being a SAHM but know wonderful friends who need to be working mums and that is great too . TRUE feminism was about having the choice to be who you want to be as a woman regardless of what society's trends dictate.

amother

Thu, Dec 11 2014, 3:16 pm

I didnt read the whole thread, but I want to add something that most young moms arent aware of.
when your kids are little, you put them to bed at 7ish and then you have your night, to clean up, to relax, to have me time, and time to spend with your husband.

when your kids are older, teenagers, you lose this time. Instead of parenting all day and relaxing in the evening, your schedule shifts.
the day time while everyone is at school is your chance to get things done, and have some me time. once the kids get home you are on a nonstop roll of cooking, dinner, HW, and talking, hanging out with your kids, maintaining your relationship, till very late at night. you dont have this evening time anymore.

so dont criticize moms of older kids for not working during the day. that is the only chance they have to relax for a few minutes, and get stuff done!

personally I am awe of those who parent small kids all day, and big kids all night. I dont know how they do it.

Miri7

Thu, Dec 11 2014, 3:39 pm

Having a SAHparent is a benefit to the whole family. I realized this when I went back to work full time. Now our evenings and Sundays are full of chores, laundry, shopping and errands. It's much harder for anyone to find any downtime. It's really hard for us to keep everything as organized and running as smoothly as before.

So as a working mom, I value SAHMom and dads.

Fox

Thu, Dec 11 2014, 4:00 pm

amother wrote:

I want to add something that most young moms arent aware of. when your kids are little, you put them to bed at 7ish and then you have your night, to clean up, to relax, to have me time, and time to spend with your husband.

when your kids are older, teenagers, you lose this time. Instead of parenting all day and relaxing in the evening, your schedule shifts.
the day time while everyone is at school is your chance to get things done, and have some me time. once the kids get home you are on a nonstop roll of cooking, dinner, HW, and talking, hanging out with your kids, maintaining your relationship, till very late at night. you dont have this evening time anymore.

so dont criticize moms of older kids for not working during the day. that is the only chance they have to relax for a few minutes, and get stuff done!

personally I am awe of those who parent small kids all day, and big kids all night. I dont know how they do it.

This is *so* true, and it often goes unsaid because Imamother skews young.

I find older children to be far, far more time-consuming than younger children. And the amount of focus needed can't be compared -- it takes a lot of finesse and careful coaching with older kids. Younger kids tend to need more straightforward caretaking.

Add to that, the fact that Mom herself is older and perhaps a bit less energetic by the time the kids are teenagers.

boysrus

Thu, Dec 11 2014, 4:57 pm

Ruchel wrote:

Of course she doesn't answer, you judge!

Maybe she is sick. Low energy. Pregnant. Or simply enjoying life. If her money is honest why not.

Ruchel dear, looks who is judging who! You are judging me! Where did you get the impression that I am judging her? I am not judging her in any way at all! As I wrote, I am curious, I wonder what she does during her day. I said I am a little jealous, I did not say I am judging her or thinking badly of her at all. chas v'sholom. That is SO not my style, I really am not at all a judgemental type of person. I have an ayin tovah BH I see the good in others and do not say bad about anyone ever BH. Just curious, just wondering, but NOT judging. Please dont judge ME negatively. You are hurting my feelings.
Posters seem to be attacking people like me who have the chutzpah (apparently it is a chutpah anyway not that I had realized) to wonder about others life. Since when is it a crime to just be curious and wonder? This thread seems to be striking a raw nerve where posters feel attacked on both sides. Why cant we just discuss our daily lives without attacking each other?

amother

Thu, Dec 11 2014, 5:05 pm

(OP)

I don't think u were judging BoysRUs, u were just being honest about your natural curiosity. I'm curious about lots of things- how full time working moms fight thru stress headaches and exhaustion, how stay at home moms fight thru that feeling of isolation and the lack of routine.... Not as a judgement, but so that I can use those tools for myself in my own life. Someone must have the answers... cuz I dont.....