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-> Household Management
studying_torah
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 Wed, Dec 24 2014, 7:33 am
I already told her I will need to look for someone else if she can't come, and she cancelled again.
I finally found s/o new who said she will come early today, but she didn't show and her phone is off ( might have over slept). I can't even get them to come!
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amother
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Wed, Dec 24 2014, 7:56 am
| luppamom wrote: | | ..... My father used to say that we need to clean up for the cleaning lady. That drove me nuts as a kid, but now I kinda understand. I want her to get the real grime and do the most unpleasant things that I really don't want to do. I don't want to waste her precious time that I am paying dearly for to pick up toys (unless for some physical or emotional reason, I am not able to)! |
I always had my kids clean up for the cleaning lady. They are grown now.
I was once an overnight guest at someone's house, and I felt uncomfortable about the fact that she left all the dishes in her sink and the table uncleared when we all went to bed. Then in the morning I realized that she saved it all for her cleaning lady to handle in the morning while she went to work. Good for her that her cleaning lady didn't complain about the mess, but on the other hand I wonder what kind of chinuch this is for her now young children...never to do a dish or straighten up, because there will always be a cleaning lady. I am not so blessed, I only have cleaning help once a week for a couple of hours.
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amother
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Wed, Dec 24 2014, 9:33 am
I don't clean for the cleaning lady. I pay the same as the neighbors and I have a huge house with glass walls. It is not easy work as I am exacting.
We treat the cl lady nicely. The kids greet her by name. She eats the same food I eat. I ask her if she wants drinks, lunch, snacks as she is here all day. I pay $10 an hour no cab.
I try to converse a little with her. I smile a lot and it is pleasant here.
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Ruchel
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Wed, Dec 24 2014, 9:41 am
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I don't feed her, never. Not something I hear my friends doing either. I don't get chatty but do ask news sometimes though mostly hi bye etc. It seems she does like us a lot despite we don't gift and pamper as when her doctor wanted to force her to abort (lo alenu) she came to us for help (and we told her how to get other opinions and BH she had a healthy baby for those who followed that thread lol). Don't show the CL she is your boss. Don't be the slavetrader either, no cleaning on hands and knees or with toothbrush (discovered this on Imamother.......) unless she wants it (I actually never tell her HOW just what).
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amother
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Wed, Dec 24 2014, 10:23 am
I have a cleaning lady who is loyal and who openly says she prefers to come to me over my neighbors - despite the fact that I have a VERY messy cluttered house.
And she told me why she likes to come to me.
Because I feed her well (frozen pizza, toasted bagels with butter, etc.)
Because I greet her with a smile and shmooze with her about her family.
Because I am not exacting about every smudge that she didn't get to clean.
Because I taught my kids to greet her and to be respectful to her.
And because my husband says hello to her as well.
These are the reasons she gave me.
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mommy3b2c
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Wed, Dec 24 2014, 10:31 am
Do you great her like a person? It sounds like your doing well by giving her nice lunches and clothing etc... , but what about your personal relationship with her. For example: she should call you by your first name, make sure to converse with her as a person. I ask my cleaning lady about her kids, ask her to show me pictures of her kids, ask her for recipes, have interesting discussions with her, ask her opinions, tell her something cute that my kids did. When she had her baby, I went to visit and hold her baby, etc...
These are just some ways to get to know her as aperson so she will be modem loyal to you.
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Ruchel
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Wed, Dec 24 2014, 10:34 am
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I cannot imagine doing most of the above. It sounds intrusive and forced. Even many coworkers don't do this. All cultural... my neighbour doesn't even know if her CL is single or married or in couple lol
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mommy3b2c
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Wed, Dec 24 2014, 10:41 am
| Ruchel wrote: | | I cannot imagine doing most of the above. It sounds intrusive and forced. Even many coworkers don't do this. All cultural... my neighbour doesn't even know if her CL is single or married or in couple lol |
In what way is it forced?
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morah
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Wed, Dec 24 2014, 10:47 am
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It sounds like you're doing alright. Sometimes it's just not a good shidduch, not necessarily anything you've done. I will say, one thing my cleaning lady really appreciates, I let her bring her son when he has a random day off from school. She tells me in advance, and I set out some toys for him.
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Emotional
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Wed, Dec 24 2014, 10:49 am
There was a time when I couldn't understand all this. How is cleaning lady different from any other paid job? You gptta go to work, do what you're told, put up with a moody boss, bring your own lunch, etc.
But the truth is that this is the reality. Good cleaning help is hard to find. They're not bound by any contract. You can stand on principle, or you can be good to your cleaning lady so she will be good to you in return.
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amother
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Wed, Dec 24 2014, 10:56 am
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I also let my cleaning lady bring her 18 month old daughter. If she can't make it on Monday, I say ok, is there another day that you might be able to come and generally we work it out. If you are stuck at a specific time, maybe that is the problem. Maybe she could work for you a different day.
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Scrabble123
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Wed, Dec 24 2014, 11:00 am
| mommy2b2c wrote: | | In what way is it forced? |
I believe that she means forced as in not genuinely coming from your heart because you care. It's not true, Ruchel, for many people a cleaning lady is apart of their family and they really really do care about her!
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mommy3b2c
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Wed, Dec 24 2014, 11:01 am
| Scrabble123 wrote: | | I believe that she means forced as in not genuinely coming from your heart because you care. It's not true, Ruchel, for many people a cleaning lady is apart of their family and they really really do care about her! |
How in the world would she know who I care about? I actually care very much for her. And even if I wouldn't care about her, what does being friendly have to do with caring?
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Scrabble123
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Wed, Dec 24 2014, 11:04 am
| mommy2b2c wrote: | | How in the world would she know who I care about? I actually care very much for her. And even if I wouldn't care about her, what does being friendly have to do with caring? |
I don't know. I didn't say that remark. Ruchel commented that it sounds forced. Let's see what she replies.
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studying_torah
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Wed, Dec 24 2014, 11:09 am
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Of course I treat her nicely, talk to her pleasantly and my kids do the same. I always ask how her sick child is, feed her lunch and coffee, and speak nicely when I ask her to do something ( please, if you don't mind etc). The one time her four year old had off, I told her she can bring her dd and the child had a great time playing w my kid.
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amother
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Wed, Dec 24 2014, 11:41 am
To the posters that suggested to pay more than the CL is getting elsewhere, please realize that this is unfair. When one CL hears that another is making more, she demands more from her "boss" or threatens to quit, and it can be a domino effect in a whole town.
I find that often I will lose a CL because someone else offered her more hours. So instead of spreading out the day between a few houses, she prefers to go to 1 house for the whole day. I assume she'd rather limit the amount of toilets, bathtubs, and ovens she has to clean per day?
I work very hard to make my CLs feel happy here. I give them a good lunch, snacks, drinks, and send them home with treats. I'm pleasant, busy with my own things when they are here, always say please, if you don't mind etc. I don't leave a mess, and give them basic cleaning, laundry and changing linens. Yet, I still can't seem to hold on to them...
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Fox
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Wed, Dec 24 2014, 11:52 am
| amother wrote: | I always had my kids clean up for the cleaning lady. They are grown now.
I was once an overnight guest at someone's house, and I felt uncomfortable about the fact that she left all the dishes in her sink and the table uncleared when we all went to bed. Then in the morning I realized that she saved it all for her cleaning lady to handle in the morning while she went to work. Good for her that her cleaning lady didn't complain about the mess, but on the other hand I wonder what kind of chinuch this is for her now young children...never to do a dish or straighten up, because there will always be a cleaning lady. |
My DH has this mentality, and it really bothers me. He thinks there are some tasks that are "cleaning lady tasks" and some that are not. However, his lists seem completely arbitrary to me.
Everybody has different priorities and reasons for hiring household help. Why is it wrong to leave dishes for the cleaning lady but okay to have her vacuum? Personally, I hate doing dishes, and since my kitchen is very simple vis-a-vis kashrus, I often leave dishes for the cleaning lady. My CL, on the other hand, loves working in the kitchen and enjoys organizing as she cleans. Voila! A shidduch!
On the other hand, lots of people have their cleaning ladies do laundry. For whatever reason, I just don't find that very helpful. So my kids and I do laundry ourselves.
I don't think that good chinuch stands or falls on whether mom delegates any one single task to the cleaning lady. Rather, that (a) the kids have household responsibilities that may or may not be cleaning-related; and (b) the kids learn that the CL is a professional who should be treated like any adult in a role of authority. For example, a huge pet peeve of mine is allowing kids to call household help by their first names.
The key is finding a cleaning lady with complementary talents, skills, and interests -- not in judging people whose reasons for hiring household help are different than your own.
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mommy3b2c
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Wed, Dec 24 2014, 12:01 pm
| amother wrote: | To the posters that suggested to pay more than the CL is getting elsewhere, please realize that this is unfair. When one CL hears that another is making more, she demands more from her "boss" or threatens to quit, and it can be a domino effect in a whole town.
I find that often I will lose a CL because someone else offered her more hours. So instead of spreading out the day between a few houses, she prefers to go to 1 house for the whole day. I assume she'd rather limit the amount of toilets, bathtubs, and ovens she has to clean per day?
I work very hard to make my CLs feel happy here. I give them a good lunch, snacks, drinks, and send them home with treats. I'm pleasant, busy with my own things when they are here, always say please, if you don't mind etc. I don't leave a mess, and give them basic cleaning, laundry and changing linens. Yet, I still can't seem to hold on to them... |
I disagree. We live in a free market economy.
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mommy3b2c
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Wed, Dec 24 2014, 12:05 pm
| Fox wrote: | My DH has this mentality, and it really bothers me. He thinks there are some tasks that are "cleaning lady tasks" and some that are not. However, his lists seem completely arbitrary to me.
Everybody has different priorities and reasons for hiring household help. Why is it wrong to leave dishes for the cleaning lady but okay to have her vacuum? Personally, I hate doing dishes, and since my kitchen is very simple vis-a-vis kashrus, I often leave dishes for the cleaning lady. My CL, on the other hand, loves working in the kitchen and enjoys organizing as she cleans. Voila! A shidduch!
On the other hand, lots of people have their cleaning ladies do laundry. For whatever reason, I just don't find that very helpful. So my kids and I do laundry ourselves.
I don't think that good chinuch stands or falls on whether mom delegates any one single task to the cleaning lady. Rather, that (a) the kids have household responsibilities that may or may not be cleaning-related; and (b) the kids learn that the CL is a professional who should be treated like any adult in a role of authority. For example, a huge pet peeve of mine is allowing kids to call household help by their first names.
The key is finding a cleaning lady with complementary talents, skills, and interests -- not in judging people whose reasons for hiring household help are different than your own. |
I agree with most of what you said. One difference of opinion. My kids call the cleaning lady by her first name, but her kids also call me by my first name. It's not disrespect, we're just very informal.
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amother
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Wed, Dec 24 2014, 12:25 pm
| Quote: | | I disagree. We live in a free market economy. |
I did not say that it is against the law. I said it was unfair. I feel that it is not mentschlich to cause so many people hardship. If there is a set amount that everyone pays, and you are responsible for raising that bar to suit your own needs, and cause other people to either lose their CL or be forced to pay above the "going rate", it is not a nice or proper thing to do.
It may not even be against halacha (I don't know), but there IS such a term as a "naval birshus hatorah".
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