Should you spank your child?

Wed, Feb 11 2015, 4:32 pm

deena19k wrote:

I did not call it abuse, but it is WRONG to smack a baby for biting you. He is not doing it maliciously and does not understand that it hurts you. How is it okay to then give him a smack for doing simething that to him just feels good on his sore teething gums? How is that okay?

Because he has to learn that some things that feel good for him are not allowed. If saying no doesn't work, you have to try something else. I'm happy that you didn't deal with that. I nursed two kids through teething so far. One I had to hit one time, the other never. As a mother, I did what I thought was right. And I still think I was right. That's my opinion, and if you think differently, that's fine.

deena19k

Wed, Feb 11 2015, 4:33 pm

amother wrote:

It's conditioning not punishing. Baby associates s/t unpleasant (could be a NO, could be taking away the breast, could be a tap, could be all or some depending on what works or doesn't) w/ biting. Eventually the behavior dies out.

I dont know, a smack on the mouth sounds like some pretty harsh "conditioning" to me. Say you're on a diet, imagine that every time you reach for junk food, your dh slaps your mouth. How would you like that conditioning? Hmmm?

amother

Wed, Feb 11 2015, 4:50 pm

deena19k wrote:

But if I were diabetic and was reaching for something harmful, if that's the ONLY thing that worked and saved me from getting very sick cv"s, he should do that.

Listen, you are right. As a mother, I obviously want to pick the gentlest way to teach my baby to stop biting. I just wanted to show that in some cases it might need to get a little bit physical for the child's sake.

ora_43

Wed, Feb 11 2015, 5:25 pm

MagentaYenta wrote:

Ya know, it worked for me, I've raised 7 that weren't run over by cars or burned themselves at the stove.

Well, yeah, that's how statistics play out. If you take a small risk, that means there's a really good chance you'll never see any ill effect from it. It's not like if you take a 0.5% risk of, say, burning your hand, the standard result is that your hand will be 0.5% burned.

ora_43

Wed, Feb 11 2015, 5:33 pm

And speaking of statistics, I think it's worth noting that the studies the OP mentioned are talking about children who were spanked relatively frequently.

If a kid is being spanked a minimum of once every week or two - and that's reported spanking, so actual spanking is probably more frequent - there's either a problem with parenting, with behavior, or with the environment.

Maybe the child has some sort of developmental issue (IIRC there's some research indicating a behavior -> spanking connection, not just the opposite), maybe the parent doesn't have good parenting tools, maybe the parent is using a method of discipline that doesn't work for that child, maybe they're trying to justify flying off the handle and hitting. Maybe they live in a dangerous place and need their child to behave very well, very quickly (eg people living in war zones - I can't really call it bad parenting if it keeps more kids alive).

The point is, it's complicated. It's not just a question of spanking, but of why spanking got that frequent in the first place.

I don't mean the above as an argument for or against spanking infrequently. I just want it to be clear that what's being discussed here (the morality of spanking a toddler once for trying to touch a hot stove, or giving a baby a light smack so they won't bite) has probably zero connection to the article OP opened with.

Last edited by ora_43 on Wed, Feb 11 2015, 5:37 pm; edited 1 time in total

ora_43

Wed, Feb 11 2015, 5:36 pm

deena19k wrote:

I'm an adult. I can understand language. Smacking me would be totally unnecessary.

How would you suggest conditioning a young baby? What could condition a 9-month-old child not to bite, without causing at least as much distress as what kb described? (Yelling, for example, would probably be even more upsetting at that age.)

sequoia

Wed, Feb 11 2015, 8:10 pm

While I am opposed to spanking, I think comparing it to your husband hitting you is a false analogy. You and your husband are adults and the bosses in your home. Your kids are children and under your authority. Your husband also can't make you eat vegetables, brush your teeth, or write thank you notes. In fact, while he can request, he can't make you do anything at all. Parents can and should make their kids do all these things.

boysrus

Wed, Feb 11 2015, 11:21 pm

reading all the coments about nursing babies, I am feeling sad at the thought of smacking baby's mouth. not a good thing to do.
I have BH nursed a handful of children well past the age of getting teeth. They do learn not to bite. I had three kids who really tried to bite for a while. The tactic I used was to put them down immediately, and when they cried to say 'no, you hurt Mommy'. It also helped I guess that sometimes they bit so hard that it made me literally cry with pain , and I found that that scared and upset them enough that they stopped laughing and started to cry too.
please dont hit your babies.... Sad

marina

Wed, Feb 11 2015, 11:42 pm

boysrus wrote:

Yeah, the first day my son bit was, coincidentally, the last day of nursing for him.

Sorry. Not worth it. Not by a long shot. Even reading these accounts of all you mommies who are walking around with half a nipple missing but at least your babies weren't bottle fed- it makes me so queasy.

chani8

Thu, Feb 12 2015, 1:20 am

saw50st8 wrote:

Chani, I tried holding him. It didn't work. I tried everything not to spank him. Absolutely everything I could up with and think of. Most people have never seen an episode with a child like this. It wasn't "normal" child misbehavior. I can't explain it well; it's the kind of thing that needs to be witnessed. My child was effectively taken over by a hormonal zombie of sorts.

I do find your post rather dismissive of what was actually happening.

I'm sorry if you thought I was being dismissive. I do get what you're talking about, and have dealt with that first hand. I had one child who terrorized the family with his crazy angry outbursts. There were times when we had to sit on him to keep him from hurting others or destroying things. So seriously, I'm not discounting your trauma here. It's a horrible thing to witness a child out of control like that.

And I'm not judging either. I discuss and like to share my pov. You shared a situation that you used potching for, and it worked. I'm sharing what I've done, which also worked, in similar situations, which did not require potching.

Food for thought. Just how do you think they deal with crazy kids in children's homes or even in special ed schools? Potching is not even an option.

Thu, Feb 12 2015, 1:26 am

chani8 wrote:

Crazy kids in children's homes? Sadly, from what I've heard, sedatives.

ora_43

Thu, Feb 12 2015, 4:35 am

boysrus wrote:

I honestly cannot understand why you think babies being scared and upset to the point of crying is an OK way for them to learn, but a smack isn't. Is it just the difference between passively and actively causing upset? Or something more?

saw50st8

Thu, Feb 12 2015, 8:15 am

chani8 wrote:

We tried that too Chani. I actually found that holding him down forcefully was more traumatic for him. We seriously tried almost everything except a straight jacket.

I don't advocate spanking at all. I didn't plan on spanking him, but I did find it effective.

pickle321

Thu, Feb 12 2015, 8:56 am

What worked for me when my baby started biting me, was to press her face into my breast which would cause her to let go without injuring myself by pulling away. After a few times she stopped biting. I tried tapping her on her lips once but that just made her laugh, it was just a tap though not a potch and wasn't strong enough to hurt at all. I wouldn't have it in me to hurt my own baby.

Scrabble123

Thu, Feb 12 2015, 9:37 am

chani8 wrote:

How is physically restraining a child any different than hitting him?
Honestly, I'd think that sitting on a kid has potential to get way out of hand, and that similarly to hitting, it forces a behavior with an assertion of power without redirecting it. I'm not attacking you, just asking.

southernbubby

Thu, Feb 12 2015, 9:51 am

Small children are very easily distracted which works well to keep them from doing something that you don't want them to do. If a toddler is struggling to get away while you are trying to diaper him, sing him a silly song. In fact, singing works to transition for most activities. Another trick is to make a game of something. If you are trying to walk somewhere with little children, turn it into a game. First let's run to the fire hydrant, next let's run to the mail box, etc.
There are also contests. The first to clean up gets to pick the bedtime story. There are also rewards. Bubby sends prizes to those who do their homework and Zeidy sends money to those who learn well. If the kids clean up quickly, mother will put on music and dance with them.

Iymnok

Thu, Feb 12 2015, 10:07 am

saw50st8 wrote:

That's a very common reaction for mothers. The goal of holding him down is to teach self calming. He is so overworked he doesn't know how to calm himself down.
Hold him tight pinning his arms down. The whole time softly chanting"I'm helping you help yourself" he will scream that he can't breath, your cooking him, it hurts etc etc etc. Ignore it, he will eventually quiet down, then go limp. For 1/3 of the time it took to get to here cuddle and comfort him.
If you ask him about it later he will likely say he liked it.
This is more common with sensory kids.

dancingqueen

Thu, Feb 12 2015, 10:19 am

ora_43 wrote:

Because imo, one situation teaches him that biting hurts mommy and makes her upset. Dc is upset too because mommy is upset and won't want to repeat the trigger action (biting). On the other hand hitting, especially a baby just teaches that monmy is bigger and stronger and can hurt him if displeased.

I also was very disturbed by the mom spanking the 1 year old for throwing food. Why would she keep doing it especially if it's not working?? Sad