My kid has no friends :(

southernbubby

Thu, Feb 26 2015, 9:59 am

I am a loyal customer of the self esteem shop, located a few miles from my home. They have a website and you can talk on the phone to them. I just bought some books (for my grandchildren) that help children with social skills and they are very economical. The library may have them as well. These books help children to identify social cues and some of them are on an early childhood level. There are also role playing dolls and finger puppets that have various facial expressions and children can also role play situations where they can practice making good decisions in social situations.

amother

Thu, Feb 26 2015, 10:01 am

Thanks, Chayalle, for clarifying. I actually am in Lakewood and would love it if you could give me the name of the therapist. Would you mind posting or would you rather I pm you?

southernbubby, that sounds great in theory but the role-playing has never worked for him. I'm not sure why, I think he just feels awkward doing it with me. Also, he knows what he's supposed to do and what he's not supposed to do, but when it comes down to implementing it he just can't.

amother

Thu, Feb 26 2015, 10:43 am

One of my kids had similar challenges at that age. He has ADHD, and putting him on meds helped a lot. You have to see which one works for you, though. The one he's on now (at age 8.5) is Focalin XR and once he started it he became much better about empathy and seeing others' points of view. We also have him in a great social skills group that has really helped. Shop around, there are a lot of choices in social skills groups, and many aren't so great. You want one where the kids do lots of play activities and get the opportunity to interact a lot, with coaching and warm, positive feedback.

Finding him a friend who's a year or two younger is helpful too, that he can play with at home. My son couldn't handle kids his own age when he was 6. Now BH he does great 80% of the time and has good friends his age. But at age 6 he played a lot with the little boy next door and it helped him learn to take turns and negotiate.

chani8

Thu, Feb 26 2015, 10:58 am

Chayalle, my comment that having friends doesn't make introverts happy, was a big generalization and not accurate, and it's not even what I meant to say, I was being too brief. I agree with your DD that an introvert is happy to have a friend. Social psychology might even suggest that it's imperative to mental health to make friends. I was meaning more that OP's son needs to find ways to enjoy school, and while a friend would be nice, as long as he's enjoying learning, it's possible that liking his classmates or even being liked by them, may not be as important to him as it would be to an extrovert. IME, a geeky introvert may not even realize he has no friends. He may be bored at recess, though, because that's when he's supposed to play with kids, but it's just not happening for him. Non-geeky introverts probably manage much better, though.

Op, I agree with you that an introvert should have the ability to interact with others at least well enough to not get into fights or be bullied, so I very much support intervention. I hope the school will help your child.
Sorry to go on and on here, OP, I was just enjoying the discussion on introversion in general. I do understand your worries about your son. If it helps any, my geeky kids turned out fine. I just think a lot had to do with my teaching them to accept their introversion with pride.

amother

Thu, Feb 26 2015, 11:02 am

I'm an introvert who does not need friends at all.
I literally have to work on myself to force myself to have friends so that I'll gain the healthy emotional and social benefits of friends- many of which I do not understand, but trust are there.
Interestingly enough I was the most popular girl in school and everyone copied everything I did, constantly wanting to be my friend. I was very nice to people but always wanted to eat lunch alone, play alone, do things alone, and not call my friends on the phone. I occasionally would, but would be perfectly fine skipping it. I often invited kids who were teased to sit with me for their sake, but I preferred to sit alone. Today I am the same way and I really don't feel a need for any interaction with people which is hard for marriage but I try to intellectually work that out everyday.

MagentaYenta

Thu, Feb 26 2015, 11:32 am

I have to agree with the Ima's in favor of martial arts. A good instructor teaches students how to recognize feelings and make choices. It's excellent for developing motor skills, and teaching children how it feels to control their bodies. For younger students it isn't all about defending oneself, and with a proper teacher it's a way for a child to become more aware of their body and do mind body integration.

Chayalle

Thu, Feb 26 2015, 11:57 am

OK, called my friend. She said there used to be a social skills therapist in Lakewood named Miriam Shechter, and she and Daniella Feldman ran the social skills groups that helped her DD so much. She says Miriam Shechter moved OOT but Daniella is still here. She works in Chemed but not sure if she still does groups. Worth a shot to find out.

Chayalle

Thu, Feb 26 2015, 12:04 pm

A word on team groups, like soccer, karate, etc...it works if it interests your child. Otherwise, your child will not benefit.

For example, My 6 year old DD needed some help with focus and sensory issues, and I tried two different methods, recommended by her school - an OT program, where my DD was bored and didn't cooperate in the slightest - I spent lots of $$ with a private instructor and she just ran around the room while the therapist tried to get her to cooperate, maybe in the last 10 minutes...then gymnastics was recommended, and we thought she might do better in a group...well, she hates gymnastics (even though she was one of the first in the group to manage a decent cartwheel), begged to stay home every week...and I finally let her stop.

(Incidentally, her focus improved HUGELY as soon as she learned to read, which she LOVES....I should've just hired someone to teach her to read earlier, as she's very bright B"AH.....and her sensory issues are improving slowly as she matures.....)

Gyst of my rambling (sorry about that) is that your son will gain only if he is interested and will cooperate. Some kids will not perform in a sports group. They just won't. Especially if he is geeky and not interested.

amother

Thu, Feb 26 2015, 12:09 pm

OP here, thanks again everyone.

Again, if he was just introverted I wouldn't worry, but he can't get along with the other boys and that's my concern. And I'd be thrilled if he would be able to do martial arts (like I said, we tried it) or team sports, but that is really not the answer here.

Thank you for the recommendation Chayalle, I will look into it. nyer1, I'm waiting to hear back from the appropriate higher-ups in school and get cracking on this.

nyer1

Thu, Feb 26 2015, 12:17 pm

just curious.
when you're with him and there are other children around, do you address the issues right away or later on? maybe if you teach him IN THE MOMENT it might make a difference? don't make it seem like nagging or say "don't do this" "don't do that".. maybe you can present it a little more gently like, "try it this way"… "how does that make you feel?" "how do you think ________ feels right now?" gage his responses. keep a log. that way, when you meet with a professional they have a clearer pic of whats going on.

amother

Thu, Feb 26 2015, 12:21 pm

nyer1 wrote:

I do teach him in the moment, and it does work better for him - I see that in everything that he does, but it's still slow going and it takes a lot of teachable moments, which unfortunately we don't have many of right now (winter time + long school days = not many social situations).

Like I said, I managed to teach him to stop screaming at the baby for being an annoying little brother, but only after modeling and teaching in the moment about four thousand times. The baby has patience for that, his classmates are not quite so forgiving or patient.

Fox

Thu, Feb 26 2015, 12:24 pm

BTDT!

OP, I would reiterate the suggestions made by other posters of individual therapy and/or social skills group therapy.

One of my sons had very, very similar issues to what you're describing. He didn't fit entirely into any diagnosis -- a little ADD, a little OCD, a lot annoying. And even the gentlest criticism or correction seemed to crush him.

We saw definite improvement in even a few sessions. DS is now in yeshiva, and he still speaks with his therapist from time to time for "booster shots."

So it's not necessarily a long, drawn-out process -- good results can start pretty quickly, and as he gets older, your son can learn techniques that will help him self-correct.

I'll also mention that it's important to keep the school informed about the efforts you're making and give them suggestions for how to effectively work with him. So often, when you get feedback like this, it comes in a whiny, complaining manner -- as if they're requesting you exchange your defective child for a better model.

If that's the case, blow right past it. Make sure they know what you're doing to help your son develop better social skills and keep focusing the conversation on *his* appropriate development -- not what makes life easier for them.

Hatzlacha!

amother

Thu, Feb 26 2015, 12:34 pm

Thanks, Fox, that's reassuring! I'm terrified of a long and drawn-out ordeal, he'll just get frustrated and the other kids' opinion of him will just be cemented and that much harder to change as time goes on.

What really makes me mad is that the school is not complaining or demanding that I "trade him in for a better model" (love that!) but that they seem fairly indifferent. Last year when he was fighting with kids we heard all about it, but now that he's only hurting himself he's beginning to fall through the cracks, and that scares me.

When I talked to his teacher just two weeks ago about an unrelated topic, and asked how he's doing socially, she made it seem as if he's doing okay. I haven't heard from the social skills therapist in weeks. Nobody's complaining, but he's suffering. The teacher kept wanting to talk about his writing and math skills, and I don't give a darn about his academic performance (better than decent, ftr) right now!

I'm not going to sit back and let it happen, though, I'm working on my squeaky-wheel-ness.

Thanks, amother, but I'm in the US.

Dolly Welsh

Thu, Feb 26 2015, 1:24 pm

shabbatiscoming wrote:

Dolly, you are very wrong about karate or other martial arts. My husband used to own a martial arts club. he loved teaching young children. And he could see the self esteem rise in the students (even if there was self esteem to begin with). It is a very good tool to teach young kids a lot of different skills.

Totally! Just not THIS one! Or ones like this one!

I only meant not to physically train or empower a child, especially male, but really anybody, who is showing an inappropriately high level of aggression.

Such a kid is aggressive exactly because his relating skills are poor and produce poor experience for him. HOWEVER that understandable reason doesn't mean it's fine for him to aggress. It isn't.

The rules apply to everybody alike, both the smoothly successful, and the frustrated and the mocked.

Nobody, even the frustrated and mocked, has the right to aggress.

By aggressing I don't mean normal horsing around.

I mean a severe form. Severe, in what he DOES, or severe in FREQUENCY. Verbal or physical.

A kid who responds aggressively, inappropriately, to frustration, should not be taught karate or firearms or any physical empowerment.

But YOUR business taught kids WITHOUT severe social difficulties. And of course, it was very good for them.

Just to clarify what I meant up there.

Indulge me: I want to reiterate in all caps: THE RULES APPLY TO EVERYBODY. THERE IS NO CUTTING OF SLACK FOR THE UNHAPPY. NOBODY CAN BRUTALIZE HIS FELLOWS. THERE ARE NO EXCUSES AND NO EXCEPTIONS. YOU DO AGGRESSIVE CHILDREN NO FAVORS BY ALLOWING THEM TO AGGRESS BECAUSE YOU UNDERSTAND HOW MUCH THEIR LIVES HURT. THEIR LIVES ARE GOING TO HURT EVEN WORSE IF YOU LET THEM DO WHAT THEY SHOULDN'T DO. AND IT IS HIDEOUSLY UNFAIR TO THE OTHER CHILDREN THEY TAKE THEIR SORROWS OUT ON.

Sorry for screeching. I needed that.

mommyla

Thu, Feb 26 2015, 1:49 pm

Dolly, my son takes karate. They do not come to class and earn how to kick people immediately. First they learn discipline, then self defense. They learn respect and control. Only then do they learn offensive moves. Martial arts is perfect for a kid who needs to learn self-control.

OP, good luck and hugs to you. It can't be easy. Kudos for taking care of it now!

shabbatiscoming

Thu, Feb 26 2015, 1:58 pm

Dolly Welsh wrote:

dolly, you are wrong. Specifically to the kids who may have issues with aggression karate or other martial arts is a very good idea as the child will learn how to use that aggresion in a correct way. Ive seen it first hand.

Dolly Welsh

Thu, Feb 26 2015, 2:05 pm

I hear that and I respect it.

But in week two, the newbies beg the older ones to teach them the cool moves that destroy your enemy, behind the school where the teacher does not see.

And of course they do.

If the teacher knows that, because he did this himself when he was little, he feels no need to tell the parents.

Karate knowledge, like animal care knowledge, does not translate into knowing how to relate to people.

Relating to people is the realm of a psychologist.

An aggressive kid will still lose his temper, even though he knows karate, and he should not know it. He may even reason that all that "domo arigato sensei" respect stuff applies only in karate class, not in general in the school yard.

Who knows what people will do? It takes a graduate degree and practicums to know what people will do. I would not take the chance of physically empowering a kid with anger issues.

This thread is about the boy with the problems.

Because I just wandered anonymously in and am just a passerby, I am thinking also about the other kids.

The baby he screamed at has my sympathy.

There are threads here about "I had an aggressive brother and he picked on me and my parents only thought about him and forgot about us good kids and we lived in fear".

I WISH THIS POOR BOY WELL. I know he didn't ask for his troubles.

FranticFrummie

Thu, Feb 26 2015, 5:22 pm

OP, you are an awesome mommy for being so in tune with your DS!

He sounds so much like my DD, I could have written this post myself.

Does your son have an IEP? If not, you need to get him evaluated and get him one ASAP. That way you can push for more social skills hours. I also agree that he should see a child psychologist, and have him evaluated for Aspergers, because he's obviously not reading social cues, and being rigid to compensate for all the confusion in his world. (and then he's confused as to why his rigidness isn't working for him. Sad

)

With DD, I had to constantly explain cause and effect with every single thing she did, and I still have to do that. She just doesn't see how things are connected, and I have to practically draw her a picture. She's 11 now, and doing much better, but that lack of connecting logic still lingers.

I ask questions like "why do you think that happened?" and "what do you think would happen if?" and "if that happened to you, what would you do?" You have to do this every. single. day. with everything, all the time. Otherwise she thinks that the world is a random and hostile place that is out to get her, and she has no way of knowing what is going to jump out and attack her next. (even though she kicked the other kid's desk first, she still won't know why that kid just smacked her.)

Oy, spectrum-y kids, how do they work??? What

BTW, none of this has anything to do with intelligence. DD has an IQ of 130, and I was told that if her math skills were higher, she's be a Mensa candidate. She just doesn't get Real Life. Don't let anyone put you off by saying things like "Oh, but he seems so smart!" like he couldn't possibly be struggling. They are obviously ignorant about social development issues.