Vent - my guests ate my MM cookies

amother

Sun, Mar 01 2015, 10:48 am

amother wrote:

They were very close family of one of my neighbors. The neighbors have a very full house. The guests are a young couple who obviously don't know boundaries.

I wouldn't ask the guests to pay because they are not well off. Also I want to give homemade instead of bought.

My problem is how to say no in the future. When I say this is not a good weekend, then they ask when a good weekend is. One family had a rabbi call me up and give me a lecture how important it is to host. I have been asked for Pesach about a month ago by that family. I originally said no and then changed my mind when pressured by the Rabbi.

southernbubby

Sun, Mar 01 2015, 10:55 am

quote="amother"]They were very close family of one of my neighbors. The neighbors have a very full house. The guests are a young couple who obviously don't know boundaries.

I wouldn't ask the guests to pay because they are not well off. Also I want to give homemade instead of bought.

My problem is how to say no in the future. When I say this is not a good weekend, then they ask when a good weekend is. One family had a rabbi call me up and give me a lecture how important it is to host. I have been asked for Pesach about a month ago by that family. I originally said no and then changed my mind when pressured by the Rabbi.[/quote]

My husband has had to tell rabbonim not to call me. He was very firm about it. Tell the rabbi that you and you husband cannot handle it at the current time and that he must find someone else. Hosting is a mitzvah but it is according to the ability of the host. Find another rabbi who you trust to guide you in how much of this mitzvah that you must accept. Those couples who are raising large families in small apartments are not obligated to let strangers sleep there with the kids. Not in this day and age.

amother

Sun, Mar 01 2015, 11:08 am

southernbubby wrote:

My husband has had to tell rabbonim not to call me. He was very firm about it. Tell the rabbi that you and you husband cannot handle it at the current time and that he must find someone else. Hosting is a mitzvah but it is according to the ability of the host. Find another rabbi who you trust to guide you in how much of this mitzvah that you must accept. Those couples who are raising large families in small apartments are not obligated to let strangers sleep there with the kids. Not in this day and age.[/quote]

It wasn't my Rabbi who called. It was the other family's rabbi. We have the extra rooms and there are no nearby hotels. The options are limited around here.

Can you think of a nice way to say that I don't want to have someone else's guests and stay on good terms? I don't want to have to label all my food to be hands off.

amother

Sun, Mar 01 2015, 11:16 am

That's unbelievable. shock

Who would go into someone's freezer without asking???

OP, I don't think you have to worry about this happening again, it's so weird! But if you really don't want guests then just say so. Realize that once your kids are married and coming home for YT you may be the one desperate for sleeping space from neighbors, though.

I'm close with a family that has an open house, and they don't leave the guests unattended. There's always one of the adults with the guests except once the guests have gone to bed. If people are pressuring you to have guests then make sure that your dh is on board with being on top of things rather than heading off to shul leaving you to deal with the guests.

amother

Sun, Mar 01 2015, 11:40 am

amother wrote:

That's unbelievable. shock

This happened once before when someone else's guest ate my Pesach Chol Homid food. I couldn't replace it because we were leaving at night and it was a one day chol homid. I can't be the police watching people. DH is not the police either. We have had people get into the booze and other food, but other than the cookies and the Pesach food, I was ok.

kerida

Sun, Mar 01 2015, 11:58 am

I think this happened for a reason, so kind neighbourly op gets the strength to say NO, SO SORRY BUT NO !!!

Really cheeky and chuzpadik guests. Bye bye time, if a Rabbi calls then say no politely and firmly, no, have been happy to help previously but been upset and feel newly agitated at the very thought after being taken advantage of. Be really calm and cool, and determind, no!! We have hosted for neighbours and a teaching institution nearby, most guests very respectful, but one couple were so cheeky, evaluating our home and belongings, pricing up our family home infront of our kids!!! Gosh, after that it was goodby to hosting unless we know who or what is coming. It is a mitzva to help out those in need, not cheeky souls who are not welcome and do not deserve a friendly host happy to help out.

Barbara

Sun, Mar 01 2015, 12:01 pm

amother wrote:

WADR, you get a lot of dysfunctional guests.

Normal people don't go into other people's freezers and eat the (frozen) cookies. Normal people don't raid host's freezers and eat whole meals. Normal people don't hit their host's liquor cabinets.

Just say you're burned out, and can't have guests for a while. If you do host again, say you've had a few bad experiences, and can only host people who someone you know personally vouches for.

southernbubby

Sun, Mar 01 2015, 12:19 pm

I just came home from a shiur and while at the shiur, I asked the rebbitzen about this topic. She hosts lots of people and some of them are extremely challenging. She stated that:

1) The mitzvah of hosting goes according to ability
2) The host has to be very upfront about the house "rules"
3) The family has to develop the ability to tolerate or ignore challenging behavior

I very much agree with Barbara's idea of checking references before letting guests sleep in your home.

I personally think that if you have children in OOT yeshivas who come home specially for bein hazemanim, you are exempt for extra guests. These children need your full attention. They are minimally parented by you when they are away and THEY NEED YOU NOW (sorry for shouting).

Also, if you do accept someone else's guests simply due to space, they should provide all food and refreshments or pitch in with money. Giving space is one thing but incurring expense is something else. It should also be clear at what hours that they are with the hosts that invited them and at what times they are with you. It should also be clear that you should not take guests that could be a liability; for example your home is not toddler proof and they have a small child.

I have also had guests that slept in while I had to take care of their kids on Shabbos morning, or let them destroy the place. That is NOT the job of the host who is only giving you a place to sleep. I agreed to host and not to babysit. The guest should be in charge of his kinderlach at all times!!!

greenfire

Sun, Mar 01 2015, 12:20 pm

amother wrote:

Oh...NO OP... I haven't seen my children inten years, don't know if I ever will... But this is FOR SURE A LOT WORSE.... Crying

not sure what it has to do with someone's missing food

you might want to start your own thread - that sounds devastating Crying

Barbara

Sun, Mar 01 2015, 12:46 pm

amother wrote:

Oh...NO OP... I haven't seen my children inten years, don't know if I ever will... But this is FOR SURE A LOT WORSE.... Crying

And my friend's child died. Does she win? No one else gets to be sad or angry or upset?

Everyone gets to feel pain, major or minor. OP's being upset that some yutzes ate the cookies she worked hours on doesn't lesssen your pain, or the sympathy we feel for you.

Start a thread. People will sympathize and strategize and send you love.

Attack someone who is justified in being PO'ed that the yutzes ate her food? I'll attack back.

imasinger

Sun, Mar 01 2015, 1:12 pm

Fool me once, shame on you. Fool me twice, shame on me.

We have had many guests, some kooky. When I get an "off" vibe, I stick by closer and give more directives.

How was it that your teens did not know this was the MM, and tell the guests there was a mistake??

I truly feel for you, and these guests behaved outrageously. But you need to be clear on self protective actions.

1. If you are pressured, push back. "I'm sorry, Rabbi, but this really isn't good for us. We have our reasons, trust me." "I know you really need the space, and I feel bad, but we just can't right now. I'm terribly sorry. I hope you find something that works!"

2. If you say yes, set extra boundaries right away. "I know this might sound a bit silly, but we have had issues in the past. Here is what is available for snacking. If it's not enough, please don't take anything else without asking me. Here are your clean towels, here are your beds."

My DS gets upset when something he has worked hard to make gets ruined. I remnd him that the practice that went into making it is not destructible.

If you want to make more fancy cookies, enlist your teens into labor to make up fo their misdeed. They bake, you decorate. It'll get done more quickly than last time.

Sanguine

Sun, Mar 01 2015, 1:37 pm

amother wrote:

Oh...NO OP... I haven't seen my children inten years, don't know if I ever will... But this is FOR SURE A LOT WORSE.... Crying

"Who Stole The Cookies From The Cookie Jar?..."

So you want to hear real tragic? A few years ago my niece (from Israel) was visiting my parents in NY for a Bat Mitzva trip. Well just her luck... My 18 yo son and 3 of his friends (also from Israel) were staying by my parent's for a few days on their way to work in camp. Well these four, always hungry, boys ate the package of OREO cookies that my niece had bought to surprise her siblings back in Israel!! (they didn't know those cookies were reserved).. There was no chance to buy new ones and the family hasn't gotten over it in 8 years!! (maybe you have to live in Israel to really understand the great transgression)

OP - I'm not laughing at you. I really do feel bad for you (I would go nuts too). But I'm laughing at the seriousness of this thread.

southernbubby

Sun, Mar 01 2015, 1:45 pm

I wouldn't laugh at the thread because this OP was a gracious host, willing to give up space in her home, until an idiot guest violated her trust and now she is afraid to open up her home in the future. That is usually how people give up doing mitzvahs that they formally did. It is the person who borrows money and does not repay that is often responsible for a person never wanting to lend money again. Lending is obligatory if the person has it, but only if the borrower is responsible and is willing to get guarantors or put up collateral and only if they are willing to sign a contract in front of witnesses. We are not obligated to lend money or lend people space in our homes if all they want is to take advantage of us.

Mevater

Sun, Mar 01 2015, 2:00 pm

Usually if you hear people helped themselves to food in a freezer, it ends up being clueless young bochrim.

This is VERY weird for a couple to have done! Something is a little off... Ive been a guest many times and I would never DREAM of opening their freezer, never mind taking anything!!!

It almost sounds like "L'hachis" loosely defined as to aggravate... or funny people.