Vent - my guests ate my MM cookies

Mevater

Sun, Mar 01 2015, 6:06 pm

re: my problem is how to say no in the future:

Fact is out of an average 100 overnight guests, I H O P E Rolling Eyes

not more than 5 of every 100 would help themselves to food from the freezer. So its kinda rare. Highly unlikely youd come across others like that. If taking food from the freezer was the main issue, these people are clearly unique. Statistically, you probably wont get repeat guests like that. Their behavior was unique.

Lucky they didnt play dress up with your clothing and sheitels...or try out all your perfumes...or redo your bookshelves they way they see fit or rearrange your furniture or redo your kitchen cabinets as theyd have liked them... who knows what else dumb people would do...if they think theyre free to do as they please...

rainbow dash

Sun, Mar 01 2015, 6:15 pm

Ive stayed at someones house for 2 weeks in london. I made sure the house was cleaned everyday during the day and before we went to bed. While we were there my dh fixed some tables and cupboards that were broken. Cleaned the whole 5 bedroom house before we left and did the laundry from all the beds. I also had my mil and 2 sils stayed there too.

We didnt eat out of their fridge or freezer but did cook in the kitchen.made sure to buy them laundry soap and toilet paper for them and gave them a gift. And I made all the beds before we left.

Last edited by rainbow dash on Sun, Mar 01 2015, 6:16 pm; edited 1 time in total

amother

Sun, Mar 01 2015, 6:15 pm

amother wrote:

When I say this is not a good weekend, then they ask when a good weekend is. One family had a rabbi call me up and give me a lecture how important it is to host. I have been asked for Pesach about a month ago by that family. I originally said no and then changed my mind when pressured by the Rabbi.

There's a term for that. It's called emotional blackmail.
I have a sister-in-law who likes to send me her kids (not particularly well-behaved... they are the nudgy, whiny sort) for Shabbos because "she needs a break". No, she does not ever reciprocate because, in her words, "your stress does not compare to mine so you don't need a break. Besides, you have a bigger house."
Problem is - similar to your situation, OP - there is no such thing as saying no. If I say it's not a good week, my SIL nails me to the wall and makes me commit to a week that will be good. If I say no indefinitely, the emotional blackmail-laden speech is so long and guilt-inducing, that I find myself saying yes just so I can give my ears a break. And when her kids show up at the door, I find myself shaking my head, wondering how once again, I managed to have my arm twisted into doing this.
Maybe my situation is somehow different than yours, OP, because in my case I am dealing with family, but it seems we both need to learn how to assert ourselves guilt-free.

southernbubby

Sun, Mar 01 2015, 6:56 pm

It would be interesting to see what a well respected rav, and not one who has skin in the game, has to say about hosting guests. For example should a couple in shana rishona have sleep over guests? What if a woman is about to give birth? What if a family simply can't afford the extra expense? What if the guest is mentally unstable? What if the guest wants to stay longer than the host is comfortable having someone in the house? What if there are family issues with one of the kids and the family does not want those issues exposed? What if someone wants to use his extra rooms for parnassa and charge to rent them out? What if a guest or a member of the host family has a contagious disease or a condition such as head lice?

I have had numerous wonderful guests who I would gladly welcome back but there was one that luckily did not literally shoot me. He was unstable, armed (which I did not know), and pretending to be frum. He told someone who told me that the only reason that he did not kill me was that I set him up on a date. He was also tempted to kill someone who slighted him by giving him a small donation when he asked for tzedukah. He was found dead of a drug overdose in a Texas hotel room. Hashem protected me but just letting in anybody may not be the safest thing to do. Then there was the mentally unstable woman who told my 13 yr old dd that she had a weight problem and the mentally unstable man that cursed ds that he shouldn't live (chas v'sholem) to his Bar Mitzvah because he drank up all the grape juice and there was none for the man. The rabbi who asked me to host the unstable woman agreed that she could no longer come to our house to traumatize our child. He agreed that the mitzvah of hachnassas orchim was not more important that our obligation to our dd. He was a YI rabbi and we are Lubavitchers but his p'sak was 100% good enough for me!

I realize that there are those altruistic types who put up with everything and anything but my understanding is that altruism is beyond the letter of the law.

Emotional

Sun, Mar 01 2015, 7:32 pm

southernbubby wrote:

And what if someone is just tired, overwhelmed, or just plain not in the mood? What if someone just needs peace and quiet now? Is that not also worth something?

Emotional

Sun, Mar 01 2015, 8:08 pm

southernbubby wrote:

Did I forget to include that?

It was a rhetorical question. You brought up some very good points.
I think it just bothers me that a person has to have a reason that others find good enough. If I want to do a Chesed, it has to fit my circumstances. Not be subject to the approval of the person who's pressuring me. Know what I mean? In other words, the reasons you mentioned would be understood by most people and we would expect them to back off. But the reasons I mentioned? Well, they just sound selfish to someone who can't see outside their immediate needs. But I'm trying to say that if a person doesn't feel like doing a Chesed right now, their "no" should be respected, whether or not they have enough of a sob story to justify it.

southernbubby

Sun, Mar 01 2015, 8:24 pm

Emotional wrote:

Maybe the next time someone goes to the rav to ask for a heter for birth control, he should ask her how much outside pressure does she have to meet the needs of everyone in the community and that if she were to say "no" to that pressure, would she be able to raise more children? We also have to realize that the average frum woman today is a working mom and is trying to raise a family and work to support them and she may not have the strength and energy to handle someone else's drama.

Emotional

Sun, Mar 01 2015, 8:39 pm

southernbubby wrote:

AMEN!!!!!!!!!!!!!

MagentaYenta

Sun, Mar 01 2015, 8:45 pm

southernbubby wrote:

octopus

Sun, Mar 01 2015, 8:49 pm

rainbow dash wrote:

You're more than welcome to be my guests anytime you want!

amother

Sun, Mar 01 2015, 9:11 pm

Emotional wrote:

OP here: ITA. Why does anyone other than DH have any say about my guests? Also why must I be subject to this pressure?

Does anyone have locks on the freezer or label their food - do not touch or have guest rules? I wouldn't begin to know how to say to an adult don't eat any food unless invited to.

Mevater

Sun, Mar 01 2015, 9:25 pm

Whatever you do is up to you. but just thinking OP, dont you have a freezer in a basement or somewhere that no guests would go to?

Also, all those here saying people with large homes arent obligated to have guests, thats true, but when you have a Simcha OOT somewhere (for example, sister's childs Sheva Brochos or brother's child's Bar Mitzvah), where there are no hotels/motels, what would you do? Not go? Its sorta hypoctritical to stay at others' houses if you dont want others in your house.

southernbubby

Sun, Mar 01 2015, 9:32 pm

Mevater wrote:

a wedding or Bar Mitzvah is not 8 days of Pesach

MrsMarmite

Sun, Mar 01 2015, 9:36 pm

Op, I really sympathise with you. that's really upsetting. sounds like your guests had an issue with boundaries.
its only possible to be a good host to good guests. as upsetting as it was, keep in mind most guests are not like this couple. give yourself time to get over it and when you're ready you'll host again.
ps weird of the rabbi to comment. I would be up front and tell him why and say that when I'm ready, I will again.
good luck.

amother

Sun, Mar 01 2015, 10:45 pm

Mevater wrote:

OP here: I do have an out of the way freezer. I did not think to hide the cookies in there. It didn't occur to me that guests would go into my freezer.

My chesbon for letting people stay at my house is in a deep surplus so I don't feel like a hypocrite. There are many more people who never accommodate anyone who stay at other people's homes. While ideally those with space should only be asked for simchas, it becomes a community norm that if those who simply want to spend a shabbos will do so because there is space. Very rarely am I asked to host because of a simcha and those are usually strangers who heard I have space.

rachel6543

Sun, Mar 01 2015, 11:31 pm

All I can say is that it is crazy for someone to raid your freezer without permission!! And I feel for you with Purim just a few days off. I myself just finished my purim baking and my freezer is full of mm treats.

As to in the future, If you're not up to having overnight guests, then you just need to learn to say no. People can only take advantage of you if you let them. It's okay and healthy to say no! Some people here gave great examples of what to say. and you don't ever need to give an explanation of why this time doesn't work for you.

I enjoy having guests. But overnight guests are impossible for me. I have a tiny house with only 1 bathroom & no guest rooms or extra beds. So, I have never had overnight guests in my house. But I'm more than happy to host people for meals.