Don't know what to do anymore!

debsey

Tue, Apr 07 2015, 12:54 pm

amother wrote:

Hi everyone, I'm completely at my wits end! I have a 14 year old son that has been extremely difficult ever since he was born. We've been to therapists out the wazoo, nobody has given him a label or a diagnosis, just that he's a little bit of odd, adhd, manic depressive...he can go from a high, acting silly and hyper because of some shtus then he can turn on a dime because someone said something or looked at him...he is extremely chutzpahdik, doesn't really make friends, he screams and throws things, he hits and kicks his siblings...we have tried so many things and I don't know what to do anymore! I feel like sending him away so that the rest of my family could have a decent lifestyle, he has no varemkeit for mitzvos, daavening, he doesn't do that well in yeshiva ( he actually hates it there but that's a whole other rant on our yeshiva system) He's 14 and it's just getting worse, I don't know what to do, go to another therapist? Does he need meds? I hope someone has some ideas, because I don't see this ending well, I can't see him being successful in yeshiva, or having a successful marriage ...someone please help!

You have THREE competing labels - ODD, ADHD, and manic depressive. Which is it? He can be two of those three, but unlikely to be all three at once.

The first thing you need is a COMPETENT, LICENSED, Neuropsychologist, or psychologist who is specifically trained in diagnostic evals to give him a COMPLETE diagnostic eval.

Once you know what's actually going on, you can have a much more clear approach to handling it.

Call Relief and get a referral to an excellent DIAGNOSTICIAN.

This is so hard, but it seems that the hardest part is the confusion. Once you know what exactly is going on, deciding on a plan of action will be so much easier.

debsey

Tue, Apr 07 2015, 1:56 pm

amother wrote:

I did call relief. First they recommended someone who is great but wasn't taking new patients, so that was super helpful. Then they recommended someone else, we spent a year and a half by him until we realized we weren't getting anywhere...I would love to find the right person! Any recommendation?

Make them accountable. Call them back and tell them this. Keep at it until they find you the right person.
Also, cal school principals - they know which therapists have been truly helpful with the difficult kids. They are a good referral resource.

amother

Periwinkle

Tue, Apr 07 2015, 2:05 pm

Schools and principals look out for themselves in my experience. If they think your child is a problem, the want to kick him out, or they will make your child into a project, I've even had one menahel try to get us to send our son to his friend who was going for social work, not an experienced therapist or psychiatrist, someone who wasn't even out of school! and in the wrong field! Another menahel sent us to an unlicensed lunatic buddy of his!
I have not had good experiences with the yeshivas in my community. They don't care for the kids, only for their name

amother

Lawngreen

Tue, Apr 07 2015, 2:27 pm

amother wrote:

I have had similar experiences. One of the school psychologists (actually, I'm not even sure he was a real psychologist, he was the Guy Who Deals With Problem Kids) referred us to his wife (who was a licensed social worker) and she was totally INSANE. Oh, the stories I could tell. In any case, unfortunately, you speak the truth. Maybe there are a few exceptions, but I've heard sooo many similar stories.

debsey

Tue, Apr 07 2015, 3:07 pm

amother wrote:

Right - so call a principal of a DIFFERENT school. If you call a few, you will find names in common. THat's one way to triangulate the information you get.

debsey

Tue, Apr 07 2015, 3:09 pm

amother wrote:

You should give this information to Relief, so they know who NOT to refer to. That's so unfortunate. I hate the "guy who deals with problem kids" married to "lady who is sort of a social worker (she once got a brochure from a university and even thought about going to school for five whole minutes"

amother

Sapphire

Tue, Apr 07 2015, 4:26 pm

I work in an elementary school and have seen great changes in these "problem kids". Parents are not supposed to be the therapist, but if you can't find someone good, here are some things you can do with your child to create more positive interactions and greater self awareness.

Teach them about feelings and emotions. Teach them that they are allowed to feel feelings, but that their actions towards other people need to be appropriate. Allow them to come up with options of what to do when they feel out of control. Teach them boundary setting, and how other people's feelings don't have to become their own. Teach by example, and teach by talking. Explain that these are things that are lifelong goals. Show them how you are working on it, and that you are not perfect. Own your mistakes, and allow them to own theirs as well.

It is challenging to teach these concepts. Partially, because it can not be done through lecturing, and partially, because you need to really ingrain them in yourself as well. It is hard work! It is something a child needs to "realize on his own" in order to really get it.

Search online for materials to help you get started.

I didn't cover everything, but even the little bit I mentioned changes children for the better.

Hatzlocha rabba!
I hope I didn't overwhelm you or sound to preachy. However, these tools are what really have created change in the children I work with. They work better than any other method I've come across so far.

amother

Lawngreen

Tue, Apr 07 2015, 5:01 pm

debsey wrote:

You know, I never thought of that. I think you are right, people should know not to go to her. She's an MSW but totally inappropriate and completely out of her mind. I think I will pass the information along to relief. Thanks.

granolamom

Tue, Apr 07 2015, 5:11 pm

amother wrote:

I mostly agree with this post. I know that I do my utmost to teach these things, and I know that my kid has come a long way.
But the reason its challenging is because these kids are so.hard.to.deal.with. on every level. they suck you dry emotionally. and change is so slow and happens in such tiny steps that it gets really demoralizing. and then some kids fall into the 'I dont care' mode and you know, sometimes they really do not care about how they affect others or whether or not they are behaving appropriately. And sometimes they truly are unable to recognize the problem and/or control their outbursts. Plus, family dynamics become ingrained and the other family members tend to keep the 'problem child' in his role even ***if*** he tries to break out of it for a moment or two.
its extremely complicated and messy, and often a case of 'one step forward, two steps back'.
and I disagree that parents are not supposed to be the therapist, if the parent has guidance and support, I can think of no better therapist for a child. no one is as invested in the childs wellbeing as the parent, no one knows the child better and no one is around as much as the parent to implement these tools as the opportunities arise. If you can find a great therapist (and the child is willing to participate), I think that probably is best because this is SO exhausting for a parent, but I dont think parents should feel that they cannot help their child if they cant find a great therapist.

amother

Periwinkle

Tue, Apr 07 2015, 6:41 pm

amother wrote:

Like another poster said, I'm emotionally sucked dry, I feel like I have nothing left to give. For close to 14 years we've been trying to teach him about his emotions, how it's not ok to misbehave because of his feelings, how not everything is about him and you go on and do what you have to even if things don't always go his way. He doesn't care. There are no one steps forward and two back, there are no steps forward at all! He has made zero progress. Everything revolves around him and his feelings. He doesn't even try. If we talk about options of what to do when things are out of control, he stares past you, waits til you finish talking and goes his way. He won't participate, he'll mumble some chutzpah under his breath or walk away before you are done.

debsey

Tue, Apr 07 2015, 6:47 pm

amother wrote:

You sound like an intelligent person. If the obvious would have worked, you would have done it already and we wouldn't be having this conversation!

I repeat my advice - get a LOT of referrals and get a really, really good diagnostic workup. It sounds expensive, but it's cheaper than the alternative.

amother

Khaki

Tue, Apr 07 2015, 6:51 pm

amother wrote:

I have a child w similar issues. I never got any help from ANY Relief recommended therapists. One they recommended actually made things worse because she wasn't frum and told my child that they don't have to listen to anything we say about frumkeit. So that's been our story with Relief! No Relief AT ALL!

amother

Khaki

Tue, Apr 07 2015, 7:08 pm

amother wrote:

But where do I get these referrals from?! I don't know who to turn to!

Relief might try, but I'd like to know what their basis is for the recommendations they make. Whoever I got from them was at best unhelpful. When I tell them I'm not seeing improvement with the child after a year, they tell me, yes they've heard the same from others and no longer recommend that therapist and that was for one that wasn't the worst reccomendation from them.... hmmmmm.....

Id like to hear of some success stories from Relief recommended therapists. I know people are private but I havent heard of any success stories, even here anonymously.

amother

Periwinkle

Tue, Apr 07 2015, 7:29 pm

Havent had much success with relief either, so Like I said, there is no where to turn! I feel like hashem gave me this wonderful adorable little boy, but he gave him this miserable, difficult personality, but did not give us the tools to help him ! Yeshiva system is actually making things worse and there are no other options in my community, me and dh are not naturally calm or overly cheerful people, so I'm confused and upset. What does hashem want me to do with this kid? I don't see how to help him, there is no one out there that cares or helps and we feel alone, lost, depressed, watching our kid go down in flames and making the rest of the household miserable too.