Mom beats son for participating in Baltimore riots

FranticFrummie

Tue, Apr 28 2015, 6:30 pm

glutenless wrote:

Frantic Frummie - you are a genius!! It would be a good idea if the leaders of the black community would publicize this radical idea.

Not just the Black community, but anyone and everyone. Even if you're only a half shade darker than a sheet of printer paper. Of course people of color are the primary targets, but I think that everyone should teach their children the proper way to safely interact with police officers.

You never know if an officer has PTSD, is a trigger happy jerk, or if you just accidentally sent a signal that was read as a possible threat. Even having an itch can be interpreted as "reaching for something". A little bit of protocol really can save your life.

(And in no way do I hate police officers. I just acknowledge that they're all human, just like us.)

Sadie

Tue, Apr 28 2015, 6:33 pm

FranticFrummie wrote:

I've got a controversial idea.

Next time a cop asks you to do something that you think is unreasonable, like stop, sit down, or be quiet - do it. Just do it.

If you're offended by being stopped and you feel you have just cause, lawyer up and sue the pants off of the police department for descrimination.

You will live to tell the tale, and might even collect a nice payout. You'll hit the department where it hurts, in the pocketbook, and maybe they'll rethink their profiling policies.

It's a radical concept, but it might save lives.

FF, it doesn't bother you that people face death for noncompliance?
You don't think that the police can be held to the standard of only using lethal force in self defense or defense of another?
People are suing (not for being stopped and discriminated against, but for being victims of brutal beatings), and they are getting big taxpayer funded payouts, and the police that cause this go back onto the streets.
Please listen to the second episode of the radio show I posted, it describes steps certain police departments are taking to prevent this type of violence from continuing.

Notsobusy

Tue, Apr 28 2015, 6:33 pm

FranticFrummie wrote:

True, but most people do listen to the police, even if they're innocent. The black leaders would do well to explain that to their people, rather than incite hatred for all police.

Sadie

Tue, Apr 28 2015, 6:38 pm

glutenless wrote:

True, but most people do listen to the police, even if they're innocent. The black leaders would do well to explain that to their people, rather than incite hatred for all police.

I wonder how people here would feel if a Jewish kid was beaten and had his head slammed into concrete because he sass-talked or argued with a police officer. Or if a Jewish kid was shot in the back for running away from a cop. What if it were your kid.

FranticFrummie

Tue, Apr 28 2015, 6:50 pm

Sadie wrote:

That doesn't apply. My kid knows better than to sass talk or run away from a police officer. Why is that so hard to understand?

Even if she was doing nothing but walking to school, that doesn't mean she has the right to disobey a police order. Justice is what the courts are for, you don't take the law into your hands in the streets with an armed officer. There's a time and a place for everything.

COMMON SENSE, PEOPLE!

debsey

Tue, Apr 28 2015, 6:53 pm

FranticFrummie wrote:

THIS -exactly. All the "how would you feel if it was a Jewish kid being beaten by police for mouthing off?" I'd feel bad for the kid, but point out that mouthing off to a cop just isn't the smartest thing to do. (Don't mouth off to the guy with the gun, kid, if you want to see age 21......)

Are the police always right? Of course not. But they have a largely thankless task, and when a kid tells a cop that he's gonna "mess him up" and reaches for his pocket - that just MIGHT be a gun and that cop just might be dead in another second. Keep in mind - that kind of adverse working condition would make the most calm person kind of crazy after a while.

Sadie

Tue, Apr 28 2015, 6:54 pm

I have one more excellent article to post, by Frank Serpico, a cop who exposed corruption and coverups of police brutality in the 60's and 70's. He outlines the steps police forces should take in order to repair the broken relationships they have with their communities:
http://www.alternet.org/serpic.....-back

He mentions an important point- people who are mentally ill may *not be able* to comply with police orders, because of this they are often disproportionally victims of excessive force. People who have a mentally ill family member who becomes violent are often afraid to call the cops for their own protection, because they fear, with reason, that the responding officers will kill their relative. Such as in this episode: http://edition.cnn.com/2014/01.....lled/

debsey

Tue, Apr 28 2015, 6:56 pm

Sadie wrote:

You're right - but if you have a mentally ill relative, make sure his meds are adjusted and make sure he's aware of the risk he takes if he trash talks a police officer. Could a delusional kid who thinks he's Captain Kirk hold out a toy phaser and end up getting shot by a cop? Sure. And that would be tragic, but if a cop didn't shoot when someone held up what might or might not be a toy gun to him, his wife would be a widow and his kids would be orphans. Wouldn't that be equally tragic?

Sadie

Tue, Apr 28 2015, 6:58 pm

FranticFrummie wrote:

That doesn't apply. My kid knows better than to sass talk or run away from a police officer. Why is that so hard to understand?

Please! What if she didn't know better?? Teens are horrible decision makers. What if she was oppositional defiant and mouthed off all the time?
What if you had a kid who was a little hooligan and ran because he had marijuana in his pocket and didn't want to get caught?
Teens deserve to die for this?

Sadie

Tue, Apr 28 2015, 7:06 pm

debsey wrote:

Cops sign up to do a dangerous job. A regular person walking down the street hasn't signed up to take the same risk.
The steps outlined in the Serpico article make the cops' job safer. Widespread adoption of these recommendations would make things safer for both cops and the communities they are policing. I just don't get how people can keep saying "just follow orders so you don't get killed". That's what you tell someone who's being held up in a robbery! The police need to be held to higher standard than that.

FranticFrummie

Tue, Apr 28 2015, 7:12 pm

Sadie wrote:

A parent's failure to educate their kids properly can lead to a child's death. No, I'm not saying that anyone deserves to die because of a bad decision or a minor infraction, I'm saying that it's preventable.

If you're carrying drugs, it's better to take the rap on a minor charge, than to be shot dead. If your kid has ODD, you'd better get them some therapy and life skills courses, or keep them under a watchful eye.

I blame the parents for 95% of this, and the police for 5%. If kids don't grow up knowing how to behave in society, then there are natural consequences that are not pretty. No one deserves to die for sticking their arm in the lion cage, but it's going to get ripped off all the same. Do you teach your kids to behave safely at the zoo? It's not your job to be a lion tamer, it's your job to teach your kids proper behavior.

The police are lions. They are trained to deal with criminals. If your child acts like a criminal (even if they aren't), the police will treat them as such. Mouthing off, running, spitting, resisting, etc. are all criminal behaviors that will get the lions in an uproar (pardon the pun).

Sadie

Tue, Apr 28 2015, 7:23 pm

FranticFrummie wrote:

I blame the parents for 95% of this, and the police for 5%. If kids don't grow up knowing how to behave in society, then there are natural consequences that are not pretty. No one deserves to die for sticking their arm in the lion cage, but it's going to get ripped off all the same. Do you teach your kids to behave safely at the zoo? It's not your job to be a lion tamer, it's your job to teach your kids proper behavior.

The police are lions. They are trained to deal with criminals. If your child acts like a criminal (even if they aren't), the police will treat them as such. Mouthing off, running, spitting, resisting, etc. are all criminal behaviors that will get the lions in an uproar (pardon the pun).

It is not the police's job to be a lion.
(I can't believe I just wrote that sentence)
Lions don't use reason and judgement. Lions don't sign up to protect and serve us.
Mouthing off, running and spitting are bratty, not criminal. Resisting is criminal but the only response should be enough force to subdue.
There are clear rules about excessive force and the police are breaking those rules and they are not receiving consequences. A police officer pledges to uphold the law. They should be held to that pledge.

Mevater

Tue, Apr 28 2015, 7:26 pm

glutenless wrote:

Frantic Frummie - you are a genius!! It would be a good idea if the leaders of the black community would publicize this radical idea.

Have police ever injured any suspect who did NOT resist arrest and DID follow instructions?

UQT

Tue, Apr 28 2015, 8:02 pm

I don't know, police are facing terrible animosity because of these highly publicized events. My husband needed a hospital transfer right after Ferguson and I was speaking to the white ambulance driver about the situation. She told me she's based in Newark, which is predominantly black and during protests for the Staten Island story she got a 911 call and she and her black partner headed out to a potential heart attack. When the women's sons saw it was a white women in uniform (EMS uniform mind you)they refused to let her in. They said "I would rather my mom die than have a white women touch her." She had to call the cops who supervised her going in and helping the victim. It boggles my mind.
If that's the animosity they are dealing with, they are doomed before they start.

imasoftov

Tue, Apr 28 2015, 8:04 pm

Sadie wrote:

I give up.
We have a system in which any resistance to authority- even nonviolent or verbal resistance- justifies your *death*.
And Jews are defending it.
Well, what do we care, we're all safe here.

I'm not even sure abut that
http://www.timesofisrael.com/c.....tack/

I could also discuss a man I know who was pushed to the ground by a government-supported organization last week if it wasn't verboten.

Sadie

Tue, Apr 28 2015, 8:09 pm

imasoftov wrote:

Hey, I also know that man. We used to go to the same shul. Small world.