Mom beats son for participating in Baltimore riots

Notsobusy

Tue, Apr 28 2015, 8:18 pm

Sadie wrote:

I give up.
We have a system in which any resistance to authority- even nonviolent or verbal resistance- justifies your *death*.
And Jews are defending it.
Well, what do we care, we're all safe here.

I don't think anyone is defending it. I think any time there is a suspicion that a police officer acted with undue force, they should be fully investigated, and not by the police department that they belong to. I also believe that it is a very small minority of police officers who do such things.

But, if you cooperate you have a better chance of walking away unharmed. That's just a fact. I wouldn't walk in a bad neighborhood by myself late at night, or flaunting expensive jewelry, because I care more about my safety than about being politically correct. Same thing, be careful, don't resist or talk back or run away, or as in some of the recent stories, don't try to run over a cop, or reach into your glove compartment after you were told not to move, because you don't want to be shot, even if you're innocent.

The only reason why I think the black community needs to start teaching it to their kids, is because they are the ones who are having a problem, not because otherwise they deserve to die.

Notsobusy

Tue, Apr 28 2015, 8:22 pm

Mevater wrote:

Have police ever injured any suspect who did NOT resist arrest and DID follow instructions?

Unfortunately they have, there are bad people in every religion, organization, race, whatever. Most cops are not like that. It's a good idea not to commit crimes (for lots of reasons), and to try to stay out of bad situations. Most people living in America will never be in a position where they are being arrested, let alone being injured while being arrested.

FranticFrummie

Tue, Apr 28 2015, 8:37 pm

glutenless wrote:

THANK YOU! I am so tired of having my words twisted. Where, in anyone's posts, did anyone say that death was just peachy keen with them? Nowhere, that's where. If you can show me just one post where you can directly quote someone saying "Yay, he got what was coming to him!" I will eat my tichel, and post pictures of it.

We're talking about how to prevent death, not justifying excessive force. Basic reading comprehension seems to be sorely lacking in certain people - either that, or it's just not fitting their agenda.

Rolling Eyes

gp2.0

Tue, Apr 28 2015, 9:01 pm

I agree with Sadie.

Police brutality is just wrong. End of story. It doesn't matter if a teen ran, or back-talked or whatever. How does a police officer get from point A - slapping on handcuffs, to point B - breaking someone's neck?

Freddie Gray died for no reason. He committed no crime. He shouldn't even have been arrested. He was chased because he ran, searched because he was black, arrested on a pretense, and killed for no reason.

Some of you are justifying police brutality the way people justify rape culture. "She was wearing a mini-skirt, she was asking to be raped. She was wearing a diamond necklace, she was asking to be robbed. He ran from a police officer, he was asking to have his spine broken."

The fact that the police officers who commit these crimes are given a slap on the wrist and allowed back on the streets is reprehensible.

I dunno...I mean I know I'm supposed to stay calm, and not resist arrest, but if I can expect to have my neck broken in the back of a police van, you bet I'm gonna run like h*ll if I see a police officer.

Notsobusy

Tue, Apr 28 2015, 9:27 pm

gp2.0 wrote:

Nobody is justifying police brutality or rape culture. Being smart to keep yourself safe doesn't equal justifying someone else's wrongdoing. Would you walk around in a bad neighborhood wearing a large diamond necklace, or late at night?

Quote:

The fact that the police officers who commit these crimes are given a slap on the wrist and allowed back on the streets is reprehensible.

I dunno...I mean I know I'm supposed to stay calm, and not resist arrest, but if I can expect to have my neck broken in the back of a police van, you bet I'm gonna run like h*ll if I see a police officer

Police brutality is absolutely terrible, and these officers should be fully prosecuted, and like I wrote earlier, they should not be investigated by their own department, because they probably will just give them a slap on the wrist. Maybe it's time to set up a special impartial force to investigate police brutality. But do you really look at every cop you see and say let me run, otherwise I'll end up dead?? I don't. I see a cop and I think, oh good, he's here to protect me. I always say hi to police officers when I see them patrolling. And my kids see me greet them and respect them and so they respect them. If my kid sees a cop, chances are he'll smile, not pretend to shoot him like that kid did a few months ago.

Again, I am not defending or justifying police brutality, I'm just saying, chances are, if you cooperate you'll end up in better shape. And not just because otherwise you may die, if you're being arrested for any reason, do you really want to add resisting arrest to your charges?

shoshanim999

Tue, Apr 28 2015, 9:46 pm

Baltimore has the 5th highest big city murder rate in the country. There have been 63 murders committed this year in Baltimore. 56 of the victims were black. Almost all the murders were committed by black men. This is indisputable. If black lives really mattered then there where are the protests regarding these black victims? When was the last time a law enforcement officer manhandled and injured a a black man before Freddie Grey? Why is the black community so completely outraged over a single case of what appears to be police abuse when there is literally not a peep about the murders that take place against black people, committed by black people EVERY SINGLE WEEK. The answer is obvious- The black community doesn't really care about their fellow citizens. If they did then surely they would be protesting black on black crime which is exponentially more common than police brutality. Ultimately the black community uses this as an opportunity to loot, steal, and destroy property. For the record Freddie gray, had been arrested around 20 times in the past few years. Simply google " Freddie Grey rap sheet" and see for urself. I'm sure he was a sweet guy. If u ask me, I say good riddance.

marina

Tue, Apr 28 2015, 10:05 pm

shoshanim999 wrote:

Do people really not get the difference between citizen-on-citizen crime and government agent-on-citizen crime? Do you not see the difference?

It's almost like saying, "hey what's the big deal if the government shuts down my internet, magazines, and newspapers? I mean, last week my neighbor stole my cell phone! Don't you think we should worry about cell phone thefts first?"

And your comments about Freddie Grey are outrageous. Was he convicted of any capital crimes, such that death is an appropriate punishment? Or is it that his skin color enough for you?

marina

Tue, Apr 28 2015, 10:16 pm

FranticFrummie wrote:

A parent's failure to educate their kids properly can lead to a child's death. No, I'm not saying that anyone deserves to die because of a bad decision or a minor infraction, I'm saying that it's preventable.

If you're carrying drugs, it's better to take the rap on a minor charge, than to be shot dead. If your kid has ODD, you'd better get them some therapy and life skills courses, or keep them under a watchful eye.

I blame the parents for 95% of this, and the police for 5%. If kids don't grow up knowing how to behave in society, then there are natural consequences that are not pretty. No one deserves to die for sticking their arm in the lion cage, but it's going to get ripped off all the same. Do you teach your kids to behave safely at the zoo? It's not your job to be a lion tamer, it's your job to teach your kids proper behavior.

The police are lions. They are trained to deal with criminals. If your child acts like a criminal (even if they aren't), the police will treat them as such. Mouthing off, running, spitting, resisting, etc. are all criminal behaviors that will get the lions in an uproar (pardon the pun).

Yeah, you are totally right. When a child is harmed by a government agent, it's probably the parent's fault. For example, this one teacher I knew beat the **** out of her student when the kid got wild. The child, unfortunately, passed away. It was totally the parent's fault! Totes! If the parent had only educated her child on how to behave in school, she wouldn't have died! I, like you, blame parents 95% and murderous teachers for 5%.

This is what you sound like, FF. Just like that.

There are consequence for being wild in class and not listening to your teacher. Those consequences are time outs and punishments. Not death.

There are consequences for being wild in the street and not listening to your cop. Those consequences are arrests and convictions for unruly behavior. Not death.

marina

Tue, Apr 28 2015, 10:24 pm

UQT wrote:

No what is being said is that police must first protect themselves. They have a guy who is trouble - and they need to make sure they come home alive.

Along with teaching your kids what do in case of fire- teach them that they need to listen to authority. When a cop says stop, you stop. If he says hands up, it's hands up. Follow directions, no matter how wrong the cop is and then find yourself a lawyer.

What are you talking about? The police were protecting themselves from Freddie Gray? What are you talking about?

shoshanim999

Tue, Apr 28 2015, 10:31 pm

Of course police brutality is far worse than crimes committed by private citizens. I'm not debating that the bar is higher in terms of what we have a right to expect from a police officer as opposed to a private person. My issue is that the way they are protesting, you would think this happens all the time. It doesn't. Do you really believe that those people protesting can name on one hand instances of police brutality in their community? I highly doubt that. They are protesting because their lives suck, there is rampant unemployment, poverty, and crime. What % of the children in that community come from a stable 2 parent home with a legitimate income? My point is that these people are angry and they are using this as an opportunity to blame others for their miserable lives.

And of course no one should die while in police custody. The fact that this happened tells me that there are apparently some bad cops on the force. In no way does this one single incident warrant the outrage coming from the community as if this is a regular occurrence. It simply isn't. On the other hand black being mugged and shot in the head is a regular occurrence. Protest that.

marina

Tue, Apr 28 2015, 10:36 pm

shoshanim999 wrote:

Blacks are close to three times as likely to be harmed during a police interaction as whites. That's what they're protesting. This is a side effect of race, as is poverty often, and the other socioeconomic issues you reference.

Of course, the protests are out of control and need to be immediately stopped. But that's not to say their cause isn't just.

And if police brutality is far worse than crimes committed by private citizens, then why shouldn't we protest the former more vigorously than the latter? I don't understand why you want people to protest muggings more than -literally- the government taking away this man's life without cause?

marina

Tue, Apr 28 2015, 10:42 pm

I think people, especially those who tend to be more conservative, sometimes forget that police are an arm of the government. They are not some sort of voluntary private patrol force. Police are the government, and especially those of you who are more conservative in your politics- why on earth are you excusing the government encroaching on your liberties like this?

It's like if Congress randomly picked a name out of a hat and killed that person. And now everyone is saying, well, hey, no big loss and what's the big deal, people kill each other all the time. Look at the murder rates in DC, etc.

shoshanim999

Tue, Apr 28 2015, 10:46 pm

Marina, is it possible that blacks are 3 times as likely to not follow an officers instructions, or become violent during an arrest? Is it possible that the reason why blacks have more trouble with law enforcement is because they act in a manner that warrants this type of treatment? Imagine a student who received detention 5x more than any of his classmates. Would the parents of that child be able to argue that the statistic itself means it was unjustified? What if the teacher would argue that this child misbehaves far more than any of the other students? Is it possible that there is a culture in these horrible neighborhoods where there is no respect for law enforcement which results in cops being more aggressive when dealing with these types of people?

MagentaYenta

Tue, Apr 28 2015, 10:48 pm

I expect LE to behave to a higher standard than the people they are arresting. I also have an expectation that they will not use undue force for minor situations like Eric Garner, or Walter Scott. I could go on but the list is pretty darn long and it's only the end of April.

FWIW, I've instructed my kids that if stopped by a cop for a moving violation they use their cell phone to record the stop, keep their hands on the steering wheel at all times and to give the LE necessary info like a DL or proof of ins. Anything else let police take them in, call me and I'll show up with an atny.

marina

Tue, Apr 28 2015, 10:49 pm

Quote:

For the record Freddie gray, had been arrested around 20 times in the past few years. Simply google " Freddie Grey rap sheet" and see for urself. I'm sure he was a sweet guy. If u ask me, I say good riddance.

don't hurt yourself but do post the pics. thx

cbsp

Tue, Apr 28 2015, 10:57 pm

marina wrote:

Quote:

don't hurt yourself but do post the pics. thx

You do know that you quoted 2 different posters, right? First was franticfrummie, second was shoshanim999

sourstix

Tue, Apr 28 2015, 10:59 pm

[quote="FranticFrummie"]That doesn't apply. My kid knows better than to sass talk or run away from a police officer. Why is that so hard to understand?

Even if she was doing nothing but walking to school, that doesn't mean she has the right to disobey a police order. Justice is what the courts are for, you don't take the law into your hands in the streets with an armed officer. There's a time and a place for everything.

COMMON SENSE, PEOPLE![/quote]

you took my words out of my mouth. we need to respect police. they are the ones protecting us. if we disrespect them then we wont be having the right protection. about police brutality, there are courts for that.