Son forged my signature on school prize sheet - WWYD?

amother

Natural

Tue, May 19 2015, 11:27 am

My very bright and precocious 7-year-old son is in 1st grade. His school is having a kibud av v'eim contest, where each time he listens to us or shows respect, he gets a check, and if he fills up the chart, he gets a prize.

The assistant principal called this morning to say that he brought in a "completed" sheet with checks that looked like they were made by a child, and a signature that did not come from an adult. He wanted to verify that neither I nor DH did this, so that he wouldn't wrongly suspect the child and would give him his prize if he in fact deserved it.

I confirmed that neither of us did it. His Rebbe left a message saying that he asked him about it further and tried to get him to admit it, and he said that maybe his sister - who's 1.5 - did it. I don't know if he knows that we know, but he will be coming home in a couple of hours. How would you handle such a situation, in terms of what to say, how to respond, any potential punishments to give, etc.?

The Rebbe left his # and said we could call this evening, or that we could talk to the principal for guidance. I'm happy with how the school handled it; I just want to deal with it properly as well. Any tips or advice?

Barbara

Tue, May 19 2015, 11:51 am

Do NOT ask him who did this. You know he did. Don't compound the situation by giving him an opportunity to lie.

Look at the sheet. Tell him you know that he did it. Ask him why he did it. Did he really want the prize? Did he think that you were too busy to check things off? Did he think that he's a "bad boy" and wouldn't otherwise get the prize? Try to address that.

Tell him you're disappointed in him. Take away some privileges (eg, going to bed later than younger siblings), and let him earn them back using a chart similar to the one the school had.

And if it was a small prize, I'd consider surprising him with it when he really completes the chart.

SRS

Tue, May 19 2015, 11:51 am

I personally think these contests where kids compete for prizes in this way aren't exactly great chinuch and your post kinda bolsters my opinion.

I'd just tell the school we did not fill it out. Obviously someone else did, please do not give a prize. Then explain to your child that the chart was to be filled in by Mommy or Daddy and that as it was not, the school did not give a prize and leave it at that. Lesson learned: adults aren't stupid and you can't pull a one over on anyone successfully.

I don't think the Rebbe should be pushing to get him to admit his fraud. It just gives him an opportunity to blame and make excuses or lie or justify his actions.

Explain to him that we follow instructions when doing assignment and let him have the natural consequence of no prize. Don't blow this up to more than it is.

JollyMommy

Tue, May 19 2015, 12:04 pm

I would just say "angel, don't put mommy's name, just ask me and I'll sign it. This is dishonest and beneath someone as amazing as yourself. If you do the things on the chart, I'll give you a prize. Please don't sign my name again." This is so common, and kids have piles of stuff to sign every day.

For another take on it: My mother requested that I forge my school papers for her. Before you act shocked, know that I was an excellent student, goody-goody and if every little page wasn't signed we would get in trouble. My parents had a lot of kids close together, worked a lot, and I would stress about her not having time to see my papers.

I don't think she was right from a Chinuch stand point, but I think she was tired of me falling apart and getting in trouble for her lack of ability to sign piles of papers every night. I will say that in general I am very honest, it's not like it lead me to a life of crime.

SRS

Tue, May 19 2015, 12:12 pm

I think the chinuch issue, JollyMommy, lies with the school. I have noted that frum schools are very into parents signing homework papers. Unless I am just totally out of touch with the public school world, I just don't think that this type of stuff is required. Anyways, the mother could have asked the boy to sign with her approval, but it sounds like she was unaware of this.

But seriously, all this signing just gives opportunities to forge signatures. It naturally follows. It is sort of like the days when I was in school and teachers would call home and kids would practice faking their parents voices so they would not get in trouble.

But today we live in a world of email and google spreadsheets. If teachers find something crucial enough to discuss or have signed, via email or via google spreadsheets or, if need be, face to face is the way to go.

mommyla

Tue, May 19 2015, 12:18 pm

Barbara wrote:

I'm with Barbara. Every word. BTW, this totally sounds like something my son would do (same age, big fibber), so don't worry that yours is unusual Very Happy

naturalmom5

Tue, May 19 2015, 12:30 pm

Sounds like something my 20 yr old would of done 10 yrs ago
Me : I heard you did a child in school today
Ds: do you have witnesses . Can you prove it
Then it's just a nefarious allegation
He said that at 8

Shuly

Tue, May 19 2015, 12:58 pm

I wouldn't punish him for it or even mention it. Just get a new chart and tell him, I got a new chart for us to do together, without mentioning the old chart. He will know that you know and the guilt is enough of a punishment.

The school should not give him a prize, but when he finishes the second chart either you or the school should give him a prize.

Basically, at his age, you want to reward the positive behavior and not focus on the negative behavior.

amother

Violet

Tue, May 19 2015, 1:08 pm

He's 7 and in first grade without a whole lot of life experience here. It is entirely possible that he honestly thought that he was supposed to fill in the sheet himself, just like a homework sheet. This is a teaching moment, not a punishing moment. If he did understand that a parent was meant to give the checks, find out gently why he did it himself. Did he remember about the sheet at the wrong time? Were/are you frequently unavailable? If, as a pp suggested, he feels that he may not be "deserving" of a check from you then that's a very important issue that needs to be addressed, with you reassuring him that he does many acts of kibud av v'em each day even when he does other stuff that's not so good but the bad things don't erase the good things. Then tell him that some sheets are for him to fill out and some are for parents and a child is not allowed to fill out a sheet that's meant for parents. No punishment necessary.

Miri7

Tue, May 19 2015, 2:47 pm

Find out first if it was a mistake and he didn't understand. If he really forged with the intent of misleading his teachers, then have him write an apology to his teachers explaining that he now understands that it was not ok.

Start a new chart. Say "you are a really good kid and will have no trouble filling out this chart! Let's get started today!" And give him a quick opportunity to get the first entry on the chart.

I think it's important at this age for him to take responsibility for his actions, but it's also important to reinforce that he is a good kid. Tell him he is a mensch and let him live up to that expectation.

We have to help our kids learn from their mistakes and grow.

Barbara

Tue, May 19 2015, 2:52 pm

amother wrote:

You think that a first grader thought that he was supposed to sign his mother's name?

amother

Violet

Tue, May 19 2015, 10:51 pm

Barbara wrote:

You think that a first grader thought that he was supposed to sign his mother's name?

Yes, at 7 it is possible that the child heard "parents name" and honestly didn't know that that means a parent and only a parent writes his own name. This is likely the first time he has come across this particular "rule." Life is confusing sometimes. There are times when a child is asked for his parents name and times when only a parent writes his/her name. It can take some children a while to get this straight, with no malicious intent involved.

If the child did know, at whatever level a 7 yr old can understand forgery, there had to have been a pressing reason, so I think some discovery and teaching is in order here. But he hasn't yet been taught this enough times to warrant a punishment.

chani8

Wed, May 20 2015, 1:17 am

He got enough of a punishment already, by the embarrassment of it all.

"The Rebbe called and told me about the prize chart. You really wanted to win that prize. I guess we forgot to fill it out together? Let's try to remember for next time."

5*Mom

Wed, May 20 2015, 5:05 am

chani8 wrote:

This.

Notsobusy

Wed, May 20 2015, 5:50 am

Barbara wrote:

You think that a first grader thought that he was supposed to sign his mother's name?

I had something similar with my 7 year old daughter. Not that she thought she was supposed to sign, but she didn't understand that she wasn't supposed to. She did her homework, and "signed" her homework sheet by copying my signature. I supervised when she was doing her homework, and I was about to sign it for her when she did it herself. She couldn't understand why what she was doing was wrong.

saw50st8

Wed, May 20 2015, 5:52 am

chani8 wrote:

At 7, I would have thought "Ha! No punishment or consequence. I might as well try again next time."

(In fact, that was how I thought)

mummiedearest

Wed, May 20 2015, 6:09 am

to be honest, I would laugh. I'd try to hide it, but I'd likely fail. admit it, it's funny.

I forged my mom's signature on report cards if they weren't good. I got away with it. kids do things like this all the time. I think the proper thing to do now is explain to him that you have no objection to his getting prizes in contests, and that if he wants to participate, you want to participate too. I don't think there's any reason to worry here. worry if you realize you never got your kid's report card.

amother

Tan

Wed, May 20 2015, 7:37 am

saw50st8 wrote:

At 7, I would have thought "Ha! No punishment or consequence. I might as well try again next time."

(In fact, that was how I thought)

I agree with you. I would have my son apologize to me and to the Rebbe.