Children kicked out of school

amother

Mint

Mon, Jun 22 2015, 6:52 pm

kb wrote:

As I said originally, if it's just me, I'll switch my kid to the other class . But if the majority of the parents in the school don't want their child in the school with this child, then yes, the child should be put in a school with hashkafos that fit better with their lifestyle.

It is against our hashkafa to judge others unfavorably. I would really have a problem with my kid being in the same class as your kid. So should I report your kid to the school and check if the majority of parents agree with me?

Mon, Jun 22 2015, 7:07 pm

amother wrote:

Can you first explain what I'm judging unfavorably though? I didn't know I was.

imasinger

Mon, Jun 22 2015, 10:57 pm

kb, an honest question.

If the kid who spoke in that way were the son of a chashuve person, whom you were sure would not have had such stories or shows in their home, would your reaction be any different?

Because that happened with one of my kids, where a classmate from a highly respected family had older brothers who talked about what they had heard about from their friends, and younger sib repeated it. We aren't at the level of sensitivity you describe, so we didn't care.

Barbara

Mon, Jun 22 2015, 11:04 pm

imasinger wrote:

A better question would be if she would volunteer to pull her snowflake out of the school, if he were to repeat anything he heard from this child. After all the other children need to be protected, don't they?

Dolly Welsh

Mon, Jun 22 2015, 11:07 pm

I am certainly not against the yeshivas. I only mention home schooling because it is useful in some circumstances.

Some can do it and some can't. Some need it and some don't. Whatever works.

As Ruchel says, if you are far enough out of town, you are going to be figuring out how to do that, because you have to. Help is available.

imasoftov

Tue, Jun 23 2015, 7:35 am

About wanting to send a child with children from "similar" families, I remember a bit from the Israeli film "Medurat Hashevet" where a somewhat atypical family wants to move to a community with an acceptance committee and interviews with different families are shown through the film. When asked "what sort of people are you looking to live with" everyone answers "people like us" except for the one family who says "people like you". But I'm just free-associating.

sky

Tue, Jun 23 2015, 9:51 am

Lady Godiva wrote:

You want a child thrown out of a yeshiva because your hashkafot are different than his parents'? That's really ugly of you.
Do you know how hard it is for a child who is asked to leave a school to be placed in another school? Do you know that you will be ruining this child's life and possibly his chance at having a Torah education?
Views like yours disgust me.

When I was interviewed at my child's school they explained that they do not allow their students to watch non-Jewish movies and a child may not come to school discussing non-Jewish movies. They also gave out their tzinius guidlines for parents and their internet guidelines.
In many schools when you sign up the rules are not a surprise whatever they are.

amother

Aquamarine

Tue, Jun 23 2015, 10:07 am

I send my ds to a school more right winged than we are. My ds watches tv an movies. His father does not wear hat or learn at all. Guess what? He s in a class full of rabbeim's sons and they curse like sailors and are vilda chayas!!!!! You would not hear such language out of my son and he is very well behaved too. So I think before people judge other people let's not forget, it has more what is going on at home than anything else.

Tue, Jun 23 2015, 10:26 am

I'm not judging anyone. I just don't want my child being exposed to certain concepts at age 4. Is that so difficult to swallow?

I'm not saying you're bad if your kids watch movies. But if my child plays "davening in shul" with one friend, and plays "I'm going to shoot you" with another kid, do you blame me for encouraging one friendship and not the other?

-

To clarify, in case I wasn't clear: I don't think a school should just kick a kid out of school with no warning. They should try to work with the parents. But in a school like the school I am sending to, there are certain standards/hashkafos. And if the family does not follow those guidelines, then no, the school is not a good fit for this child, and they should find a different school.

I was simply giving an example of what would be "not a good fit" without being a bad person or anything of the sort.

Barbara

Tue, Jun 23 2015, 10:27 am

kb wrote:

Imasinger, The child I'm talking about has exposure to television. Barbara, I am aware that it's a problem (though I know you're being cynical, I'm not.) I am disturbed that my child has learned these things and am trying to stop him from discussing these things.

But you do understand that if you think that your son was so deeply harmed by hearing this that another child should be denied a Jewish education to avoid it happening to someone else, that YOUR son repeating it is no less hurtful.

So, if your son has repeated any of it, would you accept his being thrown out of school for it?

Also, if the school concluded that someone who posted almost 3000 times to a website where people regularly discuss z3x, pleasuring, [filth], people frequenting hookers, and sources supporting married women not covering their hair, collarbones or elbows, and not wearing tights, should not be at the school, would you completely understand, and remove your kids? Have you volunteered this information to the school?

Barbara

Tue, Jun 23 2015, 10:30 am

kb wrote:

My kid watched plenty of TV. He was not allowed to play shooting games, on video or otherwise.

Be a parent and teach your kid what is right and wrong. Don't demand that others do that for you, then try to kick their kids out of school.

Sanguine

Tue, Jun 23 2015, 10:44 am

anonymous458 wrote:

OP here I would like to add that if there are many people who send to schools where they may not agree with the EXACT hashkafa why? bc unless you live in Brooklyn Lakewood... where there are many choices then you send to the school in your community. Also, there are a lot of sephardim who may accepted to an ashkenazi school bc maybe the school needs money and would accept a rich sephardi over a "poor" ashkenazi while a sephardi school with low enrollment may accept any type of jews as long as when in school the children follow the rules... why? bc they need the money.

Maybe I'm reading into your post too much, but there is a reason why he's throwing your kids out. You're Sephardim in an Ashkenazi school or Ashkenazim in a Sephardi school (since there aren't many choices in your community). (that's my guess - if I'm wrong, you can ignore the rest)

anonymous458 wrote:

I was naive too before I had to deal with this prinicpal. This is a new principal and the old principal who established the school was forced out bc he did something against the board but I dont know the full details except that my children originally started with the old principal.

So that's the reason. In my eyes that's not acceptable and the original principal was OK with a mix (maybe that was the board's problem with him) but this new principal is going for pure-bred.

I don't understand this Ashkenazi-Sephardi problem. It's not a problem with MO/DL at all (in America or Israel) but from what you describe it sounds like that's your problem.

Chayalle

Tue, Jun 23 2015, 10:57 am

kb wrote:

I'm not saying you're bad if your kids watch movies. But if my child plays "davening in shul" with one friend, and plays "I'm going to shoot you" with another kid, do you blame me for encouraging one friendship and not the other?

Are you aware that there are plenty of 4 year old boys who are from yeshivish or Chassidish homes, with no exposure to movies and television, who play "I'll shoot you" games? It has more to do with the child's personality than with their exposure.

As an older teen, I ran a daycamp for little boys, mostly from very frum, no-TV homes, and this was normal fair on a daily basis. Some little boys just gravitate to these kinds of games (and so do some little girls BTW). Cops and robbers, anyone? My next-door neighbor growing up, who used to threaten me with these kinds of antics when we were about 6, is a Rosh Yeshiva today.

I think that when we start "typing" 4-year-olds and decide they are not a good "fit" for us, we push Mashiach further away and extend the Galus.

I bet all these schools would have turned away Avraham Avinu (EXPOSURE!) and Moshe Rabbeinu (he grew up with Pharoa) and David Hamelech (that misfit among all those brothers) and Rabbi Akiva....I could go on and on.

We need to go back to the days where parents could enroll their children to get a Jewish education, period. Read books like Lieutenant Birnbaum, where kids from non-frum homes became the parents of today's Roshei Yeshiva, because of their warm welcome at the Agudah, and the push to Yeshiva day-schools.

Lady Godiva

Tue, Jun 23 2015, 10:58 am

sky wrote:

In that case, obviously if the child kb is discussing was accepted into the school, the school and the parents agreed that the fit was right.
Are mothers now appointed mashgichot of the schools?

Tue, Jun 23 2015, 11:01 am

Barbara wrote:

I did not say deny him of a Jewish education. I said send him to a school with other Jewish children on the same hashkafic wavelength.

I hope that he will stop repeating 'any of it' when he's around children without that exposure. I have explained to him that such concepts are not nice things for yiddishe boys and I think he accepted it.

Lady Godiva

Tue, Jun 23 2015, 11:02 am

Chayalle wrote:

<snip>

I think that when we start "typing" 4-year-olds and decide they are not a good "fit" for us, we push Mashiach further away and extend the Galus.

I bet all these schools would have turned away Avraham Avinu (EXPOSURE!) and Moshe Rabbeinu (he grew up with Pharoa) and David Hamelech (that misfit among all those brothers) and Rabbi Akiva....I could go on and on.

We need to go back to the days where parents could enroll their children to get a Jewish education, period. Read books like Lieutenant Birnbaum, where kids from non-frum homes became the parents of today's Roshei Yeshiva, because of their warm welcome at the Agudah, and the push to Yeshiva day-schools.

As my teenagers say (or type): WORD!

Tue, Jun 23 2015, 11:05 am

OH MY GOSH this was a theoretical example. My child was in playgroup with a boy. He will be starting school this year. The said child IS NOT in the school he is going to (they did not even apply!). My point was entirely to explain to the people saying that there's no such thing as a school being a bad fit for a child. Yes, there is such a thing as a school that isn't the right school for a child without meaning anything bad about the family.

Dolly Welsh

Tue, Jun 23 2015, 11:08 am

Males are aggressive.

The larger culture is out there.

Your kid will have to be who you make him.

No man is perfect.

A man (your kid is too a man. He is a manling, but he is a man) will have to learn how to cope with his own imperfections.

What his mother thinks rules.

He must and will learn that there are Things you do not say or discuss or show in front of Ladies especially your Mother. But depending on your own ideas, those Things may be inside you. Exactly where and how much is your task to determine.

What he learns at home is what he really becomes.

Certainly anything illegal or horrible you take him away from. Certainly any bullying by kids or adults.

Other nonsense you may not have the ability to completely keep him from but try, try. However once you are using a computer yourself you are a little modernish yourself.

Make very clear who you want him to be and he will be that.

I end where I began: males are aggressive. No. You won't ever really understand. Leave that to your husband. Tell your husband your concerns. He will give you an opaque look and take your kid aside. Leaving you out. It is possible some of those Things are inside your husband too.

There is an IDF. I don't think you regret that. There are women in it but that's not why there's an IDF.

Our limitations are elevations. I don't mind them.

So, don't worry. Just do your best, but let your boys be boys. Nice boys. But boys. They are boys. It is the weirdest thing in the world, but eventually they turn into One Of Them. Alien beings. One of G-d's favorite miracles is that we love them anyway, across the divide, without ever understanding them.

It's fun. Enjoy. Don't worry.

Mistakes will be made. The next school won't necessarily be any better. Don't worry. Just keep on keeping on.