2 incomes and still not making it

mha3484

Mon, Aug 03 2015, 12:19 pm

I have one preschooler and a baby. I'm not so young so who knows what the future will bring in that department. I have a profession and I keep my expenses low and I hope that I can increase my earnings while keeping a simple living standard. BH it helps that we associate with more right wing circles where a lot of our friends are living a similar existence to us and the schools are willing to work with you.

I think also, expectations plays a big role. I have very low expectations. I made certain choices with a husband in klei kodesh and choosing a career that while working full time allows me to spend time with my children. So a house, vacations, fancy dinners, two cars its just not realistic and I made peace with it and moved on. I would feel horrible if I sat around all day stressing over why I cant go to florida, drive brand new cars and live in a house not apartment. Its just not the life that I have available to me.

Sorry if I took the thread off topic. I will stop now.

amother

Saddlebrown

Mon, Aug 03 2015, 3:12 pm

mha3484 wrote:

I'm OP. To address health insurance- my health insurance is really fantastic. Low deductible out of network and zero deductible in network- it isn't worth it for us to switch to a different plan even if we were eligible.

We have FSA and tuition reduction schemes available. I use FSA dependent care benefits to pay for aftercare for my DC in PS and tuition reduction to pay for other DC daycare.

I do not wear a wig, get my nails done or any if that jazz- very self reliant Smile

I think where I differ from you, mha, is that I live in a left wing MO world. I did stuff w the expectation of not living in the the poor house- ie. I have a masters; my DH has a good BA. We have two kids and are done bc we can't afford more (and I don't feel like I can rely on Gd providing bc to date we can barely live and won't chance more). I do not expect lavish vacations, fancy meals or an amazing lifestyle (but it would be nice) however honestly I didn't want to be working just to make meager ends meet. If I'm working like a dog, I really wanted it to be for something more meaningful and to be able to take my kids to Disney, you know?

And whoever said that non Jews wouldn't have it better- I actually agree. Aside from Shul dies, there isn't one thing that really differs between me and someone else in my community who isn't Jewish. Being in the middle class sucks Sad

To live like a king you need to be either really rich or dirt poor.

amother

Saddlebrown

Mon, Aug 03 2015, 3:43 pm

mha3484 wrote:

For the life of me, I cant understand how a school that encourages a yeshivish value system which often comes with smaller paychecks can leave a family with only public school as their option. Maybe its a subject for a different thread but I think about it often.

Who are you talking to? I'm not yeshivish. I think the whole system is honestly set to implode. It is impossible to have a proper school, teachers, electricity etc when the parent body, of whom the school is comprised, is on the breadline.
It just isn't realistic for a family on 40k to have five kids and expect to feed them clothe them and educate them. And I'm not saying that to be mean, I'm saying that as someone not managing on double that income.

I know living a RW lifestyle is often much cheaper, but it still isn't free.

GreenEyes26

Mon, Aug 03 2015, 3:47 pm

amother wrote:

To live like a king you need to be either really rich or dirt poor.

It's amazing that you have excellent health insurance - that's one huge load off your back.

But with all due respect, if you make $85k between the two of you, that means you both make around ~40k/year. That's not a great salary for anyone, let alone someone with a family to support. Do you have the promise of increased salary as the years go on, or is this pretty much it?

If this is what your career salary is capped at, then you chose the wrong professions. $85,000 seems like a lot of money on paper (but as you said) it doesn't go very far. If one spouse makes $40k/year, the other has to be in a much higher paying position to make up the difference. Definitely with MO private school tuitions.

In the short term, these early years can be very hard as parents build up their professions. But in the long term, if you are going to be stuck at $85k forever, something needs to change.

amother

Saddlebrown

Mon, Aug 03 2015, 3:51 pm

GreenEyes26 wrote:

Obviously it isn't a great salary. Hopefully there will be increases, but who knows for sure. Even if we did choose poorly with professions, once you hit 35+ you don't have the luxury of deciding to try your hand at something else (even tho I wish my DH would).. You have to make the best w what you have.

GreenEyes26

Mon, Aug 03 2015, 3:54 pm

amother wrote:

This is true. And it's very hard. But honestly, cutting out manicures, vacations, cleaning help, paper goods, etc. won't help. As your children get older, the deficit will only get greater.

Sorry, I know I don't have any good suggestions for you. We're in the same boat right now, barely making it on what seems like a very generous salary, but looking forward to the future when our struggles will God willing pay off. At the moment, though....it's rough.

Raisin

Mon, Aug 03 2015, 3:56 pm

I also don't think this is anything to do with the frum lifestyle. OP has two kids, sends her kids to public school, and is well educated. Unless she eats meat every night, her kosher food bills are unlikely to be substantially higher.

If it makes you feel better, it's not just you. Its everyone! http://www.nytimes.com/2015/08......html

I also think life will get easier, (although you may want to switch your kids to a Yeshiva at some point). Once your kids are older you won't have childcare bills and you can start to save. And once your lease is up, you can find something more affordable.

Also, your salaries should increase.

amother

Saddlebrown

Mon, Aug 03 2015, 3:57 pm

GreenEyes26 wrote:

Right cutting out incidentals is useful if you are spending on those items in lieu of taking a night out to go to a movie. If you aren't spending on that though, you are not as fortunate. Honestly if I wasn't paying for my little one, I would be 1k better off as well Wink

Dolly Welsh

Mon, Aug 03 2015, 4:28 pm

35 isn't too old to wring more out of your capacities. Not at all.

Both of you should do some thinking about what else you can do, in ADDITION to what you are doing now.

OP if you have the grit to bring off the unusual job you have found, you have the grit to go even further and do more with yourself. 35 is NOT OLD.

The danger is: one is so tired doing what one IS doing, there is no mental energy left to think about something ELSE. One hasn't the strength.

amother

Pink

Mon, Aug 03 2015, 9:48 pm

OP, very interesting as I make around 80k per year and dh has very low income very very part time job therefore he is mostly home in morning to take kids to bus and pick them up while I work very long hours and he watches babies so we dont pay childcare. I hate working but need to pay bills ---
but we live very simply ---we dont own a home ---I have to take public transportation to work and the gas/toll/parking money is used for tuition--we pay a lot of money to tuition and only get around 3k off of tuition
my salary will go up iyh" BUT SO DOES OUR TUITION
the only way we live within our means is getting clothes from a gemach exxcept for some uniforms... and we really eat simply like bread mostly and on shabbos we dont always have chicken

yes, people would critixize this but the YESHIVAS HAVE NO SYMPATHY AND WOULD THROW OUR KIDS OUT IF WE DID NOT PAY OUR TUITION!!
We have zero debt baruch hashem except for a small apartment we bought which is cheaper to pay monthly "rent" for than if we actually rented (bec. rent keeps increasing!!)

I ALWAYS WONDERED HOW OTHERS DO IT SO??? Majority of our money goes to rent and tuition after that there is hardly any left---any money I want to save for dental or car emergencies or... emergencies is basically "not allowed" bec the yeshivas want to take it !!

I dont have cleaning ladies ---kids dont go to camp or... we dont go away ever!!....

amother

Crimson

Mon, Aug 03 2015, 11:40 pm

amother wrote:

Thanks! To amother above I have no idea how you are paying tuition.

I don't know either. We have a few thousand in savings and we are depleting it fast. I don't know what will be when we use up that small amount of savings. This is only our first year paying tuition so it has not gotten critical yet but it will and then we are in trouble.

This whole thing makes me so angry and bitter. If my husband would agree I would send my kids to PS in a second. It is so sick that our community demands such unreasonable things from parents. (No I can't refuse to buy into it because it would cost me my marriage)

amother

Blonde

Tue, Aug 04 2015, 12:37 pm

Dolly Welsh wrote:

Not clear what you mean: OP isn't using a frum school, and kosher food costs the same, so how would her situation be different if she were a Methodist or an atheist? It's not being religious that's the problem here. My upthread remarks could apply to any family at all. Maybe I don't understand?

I disagree. Being frum means living in a frum community. You can't just go and live in isolation in a remote, rural place where accommodation is cheaper. Frum communities are very expensive to live in and OP has already left NJ and moved to a more affordable place. Even the less expensive OOT communities are still expensive to live in in comparison to what else is out there. Methodists or atheists could chose to live in much cheaper places without compromising their ideology.

Furthermore, OP has stated that her husbands income depends on being in a sizeable Jewish community. It appears that a small community which may be less costly to live in, would not work with his job.

OP, how long have you got left of your lease? As others have already said, it appears that your rent is the thing you need to cut back on. I think you said there are cheaper places available so can you scrape by for now and get a cheaper place at the earliest opportunity or are those places not suitable for your family? Do you or your husband have any prospects of increasing your incomes in the near future?

You're smart to send to public school.

By the way, does kosher really cost the same as non-kosher in the US? I'm in Europe and meat and dairy costs 3 times as much and wine is like 10 times more. Other kosher food is way more expensive too.